I found an original civil war Enfield rifle.
- Thread starter muzzleloadingat18
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muzzleloadingat18
40 Cal
It has 2 crown stamps on the inside of the lock.
I do believe you are correct. The VR was omitted. There are some with the contractors names on the plates as well. All I have seen have had some form of legal British proof though.
External markings. Internal markings are assembly inspection.
There was an attempt to buy Enfield Pattern Rifles from Belgium during the civil war but the quality was so poor they were rejected but having said that; the back sight pictured looks very like the Indian ones I've seen. Perhaps Rudyard has an opinion?
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muzzleloadingat18
40 Cal
Mine has the adjustable sight. That sight pictured was by someone else
Robert Arthur
Buckeye Bob
The CSA used lots of .58 cal. (.577) three band P-1853 Enfield percussion rifles. Also, he USA bought some to supplement their supply of .58 cal, M-1861 Springfields.
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That wasn’t in question.
They did, but that’s not one of them.
Absolutely agree all had some form of British proof/markings. Enfields had prolific inspectors marks on virtually every part including screws. For muskets intended for native use I believe they stamped an N above the date stamp on the lock. Also the example I have has the N stamped on the barrel next to the rear sight as well.
**As for actually using it,
Please, bear in mind that over time these barrels will develop porosity. They are often unsafe to actually shoot.
A friend died doing just that. He was a great fan of antique BP shotguns, a competitive artillerist, and a builder. This was 30+ years back, but Bill had an original shotgun blow up and it killed him.
And- he "knew what he was doing".
I used to own a "Confederate" Enfield. There was enough evidence in markings to establish that.
England imported thousands to both the Union and the Confederacy. They were very consistent in looks and components as they were all from the same arsenal in England. As exports, I'm sure there was some variation as they were after all, exports.
Yours looks different. I have read (somewhere) that the southern armories did copy the the Enfield and some were made here. But the wood on yours does not look like a North American hardwood.
Just sayin'
Please, bear in mind that over time these barrels will develop porosity. They are often unsafe to actually shoot.
A friend died doing just that. He was a great fan of antique BP shotguns, a competitive artillerist, and a builder. This was 30+ years back, but Bill had an original shotgun blow up and it killed him.
And- he "knew what he was doing".
I used to own a "Confederate" Enfield. There was enough evidence in markings to establish that.
England imported thousands to both the Union and the Confederacy. They were very consistent in looks and components as they were all from the same arsenal in England. As exports, I'm sure there was some variation as they were after all, exports.
Yours looks different. I have read (somewhere) that the southern armories did copy the the Enfield and some were made here. But the wood on yours does not look like a North American hardwood.
Just sayin'
LuckyDucky
32 Cal
If I may jump into this thread. Hello, yesterday I purchased two (almost identical) Enfield's from an unusually attractive antique store in northwestern Indiana. I've done the research and they are dated 1861 Enfield and 1857 Tower (both have crown/VR behind the hammer). Both have a faint stamp of "London" on the right side of the stock. '57 has a unique symbol on the left stock (inscribed lines like arrows with dots on top of a dent with dots around it). '61 has the date 1861 stamped on the left stock side. All parts appear, in my unprofessional view, to be original. The ram rod measures short about 1 inch in the bore, indicating something is in there. I viewed the barrel with light and can see what looks like a white paper or cloth wad at the bottom of the bore. I think they're both loaded. The bores are rusty a bit and appear to have been forgotten which leads me to believe the wad is a charge in both from the original battlefield. Dunno about this for sure. Checked the nipples and they seem fairly clear. Should I engage with a professional to clear the rifles? Or will they hold more value remaining in the condition that they are? I have not disturbed patina or cleaned the guns, however, I did slightly lube the trigger mechanism as I have cocked them and the lube has smoothed the process. Overall, they look in great shape and the final point is that the 1857 is quite popular as the Sepoy's in India - well, you can research somewhat the first Indian Revolution from the British and the East India Company. Fascinating!! Along with the purchase of the Enfields's I picked up an Ames 1862 Musician's Sword in untouched/undamaged condition, good patina on that too (there appears 3 battle anomalies on the scabbard). I'm building a small collection of Civil War artifacts to go with the fact that I am on a team of three who have discovered the whereabouts of the Confederate Treasury gold (April 1865) that Capt. James A. Semple was to get to the British by way of the sea, but he did not make it to England; but, rather, he made it to the Bay of Fundy which was, in that day, controlled by the British. We're currently arranging for a major magazine to publish the story. Thanks anyone, and everyone, for your words of assistance and interest. I'm interested to know just how valuable the set of artifacts is. If there's interest, I'll arrange some photos. kabauman86(at)hotmail(dot)com . Thank you. LuckyDucky.
Lucky,
I would engage the help of a knowledgeable person or professional gunsmith to clear them of their charges without firing them. There are many ways to do this safely, but as you have already stated, you are unfamiliar with these and It would be unsafe of me to tell you how to do this on a web forum.
What a great find!
And you will not hurt the value of these muskets by removing their loads. Although it would be cool to keep the bullets with the guns.
I would engage the help of a knowledgeable person or professional gunsmith to clear them of their charges without firing them. There are many ways to do this safely, but as you have already stated, you are unfamiliar with these and It would be unsafe of me to tell you how to do this on a web forum.
What a great find!
And you will not hurt the value of these muskets by removing their loads. Although it would be cool to keep the bullets with the guns.
You really do need to post pictures, detailed pictures.
LuckyDucky
32 Cal
Clark & Kevin: Thanks for the replies. Will work on some pictures by this weekend (hopefully), Clark. In just a short time, I've become quite fond of this pair of nearly identical rifles. I know they're valuable. I will extract the loads with the help of a professional and see if he/she will be able to dress the bore and recommend or not the firing of the guns. We'll see.
If you get someone to unload the guns, I would stress to them to try to keep the contents of the load intact. I mean, "catch" the powder, wad etc as well as the shot. THAT would be a cool display!
nice find in the rifles and the gold
LuckyDucky
32 Cal
PapaR and Dracer... Thank you. Papa, I will be careful when I move forward on that and will send some photo of the loads when I can. Again, will try to accomplish photos of the guns this weekend. Dracer...(and for all) there is a paper on the gold location find (being written into a major article in a national mag soon) - simply contact my email: kabauman86(at)hotmail(dot)com. Tell me you're from the muzzle loading forum. Thanks.
LuckyDucky
32 Cal
Have a professional gunsmith to draw the loads and will video the action. Looking to get a professional dossier on the restoration efforts on the rifles as they may become able to fire again. Really, they are in good shape. So "Lucky Ducky" to have found them. I'm attaching some photos of the Enfield's and their sister Sword, the 1862 Musician's Sword made by Ames Mfg. Co., Chicopee, Mass. Enjoy!
Both of your rifle muskets were accepted into Her Majesty’s service. The chances they came over for service in our Civil War are very minute, but that shouldn’t matter. You have 1 Birmingham (Tower) and 1 London (Enfield) gun. Now don’t forget to photograph the proofs.
ETA: DO NOT TRY RESTORING THOSE GUNS. They will lose most of their value. And do not fire them.
