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I have a very strange old cap and ball rifle or shotgun that I re

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theloneranger

32 Cal.
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Jan 10, 2012
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:confused:
I have a very strange old cap and ball rifle or shotgun that I really would like to know more about. This thing is very skinny and 65 inches long, never seen anything like it? (Colt navy for size comparison)
Any clues?
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Thanks
Rich
 
Looks to be an older fowling piece. That is one long barrel!!! Any makers marks, or proof marks anywhere on the piece? These would help in identification...
 
That is a Southeast Asian hill-made muzzleloader. I've seen and handled many of them when stationed for a number of years in Thailand.
In fact, stores in the hill market towns carried supplies for them: seamless steel tubing of ca. 1/2" I.D., crude shot and lead, sulphur and saltpeter (you had to make your own powder). Charcoal was available everywhere.
All else was forged and shaped by a local blacksmith/gunsmith.
The peculiar shape of the nipple (nearly straight-sided and fairly long) was because they didn't have any percussion caps: local pharmacies made-up a percussion mixture which they pasted in drops to a piece of paper (perhaps a hundred drops to the sheet). The sheet would be torn into small pieces, each with its drop of mixture, which were then stuffed into the recessed nose of the hammer (it would not have stayed on the top of the nipple).
Mostly they were used to kill birds and small game for food.
I also saw many old flintlocks, either true antiques of military type from many countries, or local arms made-up with original locks. I never saw any locally-made flintlocks, though they may exist.
And the various batches of homemade powder I saw shot seemed to work fairly well: one Thai Major General I knew told me that, when he was a boy, the test for 'good' powder was to flash a small pile of it in your hand - without being burned!
mhb - Mike
 
Yes. The horn buttplate and checkering are particularly nice touches.
The locks were quite crude - made as simply as possible, often without (or without a working) half-****. And the tumbler and sear were without bridle, in the locks I inspected.
I wasn't willing to shoot one.
mhb - Mike
 
The crude ones I have seen where brought home by Vietnam vets. They said they picked them up in Montanyard (Hmong) country. One was loaded with a 9mm pistol case filled with cement!
 
I remember watching a documentary on tiger poaching somewhere in Southeast Asia. The hunters melted a metal toothpaste tube and poured it into a mold made by sticking his pinky in the dirt! Amazing what you can make do with (and without).
 
Interesting! From the other side of the world, I have a Nigerian village made Dane gun. Same sort of thing, with a tubing barrel. Its workable, the 'smith who made it had some skill. Got it from a chap who had been there on a telephone sytem contract.
 
They're still making them.
Gun ownership (for modern guns) is a real hassle in Thailand, with licensing, registration, etc., and few licensed dealers. The hilltribes (I believe) get an official blind eye turned to their do-it-yourself ML types - I never saw one with the mandatory registration letters or numbers stamped on it.
I did see a good number of blacksmith-grade cartridge firing single-shot pistols and a few revolvers (I had a .22RF revolver made to look like a S&W: it was a 7-shooter and worked, sort-of, but had to be manually rotated between shots - It had a spring and ball bearing in the frame and detent dimples in the cylinder - was unrifled, and the chambers were bored with a slightly-oversized twist drill, so I had to wrap the rounds with paper to get a better fit and ignition - it shot lousy, but it did shoot. Neither did it have any mechanical extractor: you get the idea). Such guns were generally pieced-up by brazing various pieces of steel together to make the frame, were break-open types, and never rifled. I did shoot one (once) chambered for .45 Auto (!), which was a victory for curiosity over good sense.
The pictured ML specimen appears fairly recent, without the 'patina' that comes from much use in the tropical forests and little care or cleaning.
They are still sold to tourists in hill country areas.
Another class of more modern design firearms I saw fairly often in unlicensed hands was Chinese copies of European semi-auto pistols, from fairly neat Browning 1900 .32 autos to the ever popular (in Asia) Mauser C96: none of them would fool a user who ever had access to the real things, but some of them did work fairly well.
mhb - Mike
 
It all sounds familiar - particularly the bugs, booze and travelling circus which often surrounds any 'farang' who ventures into the hills. Chiangmai is one of my old homes in Thailand, and the area is beautiful.
He didn't shoot the muzzleloader (apparently, nobody did).
mhb - Mike
 
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