I have no idea what I have

[Chevelle357]

Hello!

I am a total novice when it comes to muzzle loaders and recently received what looks like a shotgun/some sort of caliber combo rifle. There are no markings anywhere, our local gunsmith couldn't tell me much other than he thought it might be from Europe? Any info would be awesome! I can add more pictures if need be as well. Thank you!! Pictures are in the URL provided.
http://imgur.com/a/VhYiT

 

[Erzulis boat]

Looks very interesting!

Those are what is called "back action locks" (the mechanism on either side with the hammer on them).

Can you see any little markings on the barrel?

Does the rear (tang) sight have any markings?

ETA- That would be considered a more "modern" arm by muzzleloading standards

 

[Chevelle357]

There aren't any marks anywhere, no roll stamps or engravings, nothing

How modern do you think it is? 1900's?

Thank you for your info!

 

[Erzulis boat]

Yes, I am thinking 1900's but I will do some more checking.

 

[Zonie]

Based on the back action locks, I would say it was originally made in the 1840-1860 time period.

The presence of the rear sight indicates the peep sight and a special, taller front sight may have been added at a later time.

Flayderman's Guide says these double barrel guns don't have any special increase in value over the value of a single barreled gun in a similar condition (although I think they should as they are not as common).

 

[Erzulis boat]

Back action locks can be found pretty early into the 1800's, the reason I'm thinking close or perhaps turn of the century is the barrel configuration.

Is one a smooth bore and the other rifled? I have seen some shotgun/rifle combos but they were super close to the 1900's-

 

[old gunsmith]

As I recall, its what collectors term a combination gun because it has both a shotgun and a rifled barrel. You find most of them were built by New York makers, though they were also made in northern New England, Pennsylvania, and as far west as Ohio. Its surprising but not unheard of to be unmarked. Most were made in the 1850's to the mid 1860's. The tang sight was made later than the gun. Hope that helps, OG

 

[mhb]

and photo #4 appears to be of a Remington rolling block sporting breechloader...

mhb - MIke

 

[curator]

Zonie and Old Gunsmith got it right.The tang sight is relatively modern, not original to the gun. Nice piece of history!

 

[Chevelle357]

Yup one is rifled the other smooth.

Is it something I should look into insuring or is the value pretty low since it has no markings and the sights have been replaced?

Thank you so much for all the info! it's really cool learning about such an old firearm!

 

[Chevelle357]

It does thank you so much!!

 

[nhmoose]

If in shooting condition I could see it go for $1000.00 possibly more.

 

[Heelerau]

I agree with Old Gunsmith, the rear sight is later than the gun itself. Guess the gun might be in good shooting order, you should have a competent person replace the cones with some new ones and check the bores out. Well made piece and well looked after by the photos. Looks like the barrels dismount off the false breech for easy cleaning.
Combination guns are still popular in Europe, often referred to as Drillings. This particular rifle is most likely made in the US sometime after the 1850's. Again have it checked out by a gunsmith that is familiar with black powder arms.

 

[Erzulis boat]

Can you show us a closeup of the rear sight to tang interface?

Hard to tell from pics, but if it fits perfectly, then that might narrow things down.

Someone put a lot of work into that arm if it was modified post birth date.

It's not uncommon necessarily, but that usually indicates serious use or application.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Certainly is an interesting old piece. I'm thinking something in the 1850-1870 time period and has furniture similar to rifles of that era. If possible, I'd recommend you try letting a gunsmith familiar with muzzle loaders help you disassemble it a bit, sometimes proof marks, names or assembly numbers can be in areas not visible from normal inspection. I've seen several American and English made pistols set up the same way but stacked rifles are far more uncommon. You found a jewel.

 

[Chevelle357]

Hopefully these help?
http://imgur.com/KWwLmI8
http://imgur.com/dQ6c2tW
http://imgur.com/ABLG75n

Thank you again, this is so awesome how much you guys know!!

 

[Chevelle357]

Thank you for the info! The problem I have, is that no one around here knows muzzle loaders that well unfortunately, the one gentleman I talked to was pretty well at a loss for what it was. If you know of anyone in WA or OR state who is an muzzle loader expert I'd love to talk to them! :grin:

 

[Erzulis boat]

Thanks! I would say with 99% surety that the tang sight is an add on.

Just needed to make sure.

I really like it. Something to hang on to, if you think it's cool.

ETA- There is always the possibility of an arms maker continuing to produce something after the "obvious" date that it becomes obsolete (in arms evolution).

 

[Chevelle357]

So I was fiddling around with this firearm, it is a take down model looks like, and I did find this little marking. Looks to me like JM3 or JH3, but I could be wrong. Does it mean anything to you?

Thanks!!!!
http://imgur.com/XB24NbL
http://imgur.com/8v6VEWz

 

[Erzulis boat]

Those look like initials.

J.M.B or J.H.B

No need for a followup period on the initials.

More than likely owner and not builder (99% sure).

At least "he" had the foresight to mark a hidden area!