I have no idea what I have

[old gunsmith]

In my experience, this a kind of niche firearm in the gun collector's marketplace. Most of the folks who collect this type of gun do so by maker or region like a county or a state. Since we don't know the maker we can't value the gun that way. The combination guns have never been high value firearms and depending on the condition of the bores and the mechanics I would think the insurance value would be in the $350-$750 range.
The tang sight probably dates from the 1880's to the 1920's and if you could identify the maker and the model of rifle it was adapted to then you could establish a value for it.
Judging from the type and style of the firearm and the type of its front sight I would say the firearm probably came with either a "patch" or "lolly pop" style of sight. Both are early types of tang sights; the patch sight was a thin gauge rectangular metal piece with a pin hole drilled in the center as a peep and mounted on a threaded rod that screwed into the gun's tang. Screw it in to lower point of impact, screw it out to raise; windage was by drifting the front sight. The lolly pop was typically was a round or oval relatively thick sight usually with a dovetailed slide with a peep for windage mounted on a threaded rod for elevation. Both styles were common on both hunting and target guns of the period. I'd be willing to bet that if you remove the existing sight the'll be a third hole or that one of the two screw holes will be drilled and tapped larger than the other. Hope that helps OG

 

[Billnpatti]

I am not an expert so I can't say for sure exactly what you have. Based upon the sights and the patch box it looks like a double rifle or a shotgun/rifle combination. A photo of the bores would help. I would guess that it is possibly of European origin although I hear that some of these kinds of guns were made in the US. To my eye, it has sort of a Germanic look but, like I say, I am no expert. It appears to be in very good shape. I think you have a nice piece.

 

[cynthialee]

Still not certain of anything.

My impressions are that it is a Belgian over under. Nothing to back that call up other than the type of gun and the look of the weapon.

She was a hunters gun. She wasn't a safe queen or a range rifle. Some of the scratches and scuffs are rather new, likely due to poor storage, but the old dings, scratches and marks look like the ones my hunting rifles have picked up over the years.

At one time she was well loved and used, but her original owner is long gone and she hasn't seen much love in a long time.

It isn't overly valuable. Maker is unknown and the gun is rather utilitarian. It does hold some value.

I think it could be repaired and brought back to serviceable condition. It should go to a qualified Black Powder firearms Gunsmith, serviced and cleaned. And of course inspected for safety concerns.

You haven't shown any bore pictures. Conditions of the bores will impact the value of the gun and the determination if it is safe to shoot. If you could put a tape measure over the bores for a picture we could get a fairly accurate idea of the caliber and bore.

 

[TFoley]

Mooncoon on canadiangunnutz.com [lives on Vancouver Island] is THE main man with regard to muzzleloaders in your part of the world.

So is AndyinEverett from northwestfirearms.com

tac

 

[PaulN/KS]

There is also The Gun Works Muzzleloading Emporium in Springfield Oregon. They are nice folks and might be able to help you out.

 

[Wes/Tex]

The Gun Works in Springfield, Oregon is one of the best. Check out their site.

 

[44-henry]

My guess for what its worth was that it was built late percussion era, perhaps as late as the 1870s. I doubt it is Belgium, more likely an East coast gun with my bet being around New York. Based on the photos the estimate of 350-750 is low in my opinion, put it on gunbroker with those photos and expect it going in excess of the high end of that pretty quickly. Also, that was and still is a high quality gun and would have been expensive for the time, certainly not a run of the mill farmers gun. It is an interesting and desirable piece, take care of it and enjoy.

 

[OLUT]

As a 50+ year collector of percussion over/under guns, I concur with the responses of "Old Gunsmith" and "Johnson". I believe that the Beach front sight (patented in 1867) and the rear sight are original. They came very late to the percussion period ... I'd date this gun to the 1870's or maybe even the 1880's. The gun was made in America. The metal is all commercial, including the barrels, locks and german silver fittings. The long tail on the tang and the late type cheekpiece on the stock MIGHT help in eventually identifying the person who made this combination gun. As pointed out, the tang sight was added later in the gun's life. As you can see by the crack in the lock area, guns that use two back action locks left little strength in the wrist area; cracks are commonly seen. So if you ever decide to fire this gun, please reinforce and stabilize that crack .... I continue to fire similar guns in my collection.

 

[Tinker2]

This looks a lot like my "Buggy Rifle" Made By I think
M. S. Hendrick, West Aurora, Illinois”
It could be a twin although mine a single barrel takedown
Mine sure looks like yours, even was even broken in the same place

GUNMAKERS of ILLINOIS 1683-1900 Volume II, by Curtis L. Johnson
On pg.240 there is a Hendricks, Merton S. listed.

Link




William Alexander

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

I was also going to suggest most of the sources that others posted. Being a member of Northwest Firearms.com forum I can testify the two main experts on the forum for any muzzle loader are AndyinEverson(who has enough muzzleloading rifles to outfit the Lewis & Clark Expedition and probably then some) and TAC who is also on this forum, which is also a great forum. You should sign up for NWF and post your questions there. We have a bunch of great members who are very knowledgeable and just a great bunch of people. Since you live in Vancouver as I do you are right in the middle of all the action. We don't bite like some other forums do.

 

[52Bore]

I would recommend you contacting Randy Gunkenmeyer (sp?) from the NMLRA, he has a booth on commercial row as well. Good man. He makes these O/U style rifles - flint as well.
I noticed one on his website - RG Gunsmith.

 

[Eddie Southgate]

Very cool . :hatsoff:

 

[nit wit]

Contact Mike Nesbit, muzzle loader magazine.
Nit Wit

 

[Wes/Tex]

It does bear a strong resemblance to a Tryon made O/U gun I saw in a set of pics recently. The JHS letters pin stamped on the breech are interesting but the only connection I can find so far are for the Jacobsburgh Historical Society, who does have a muzzleloading program. Not a likely match but perhaps they'd know of rifle makers of the era with similar initials. Kind of a long shot, but any shot is worth pursuing!

 

[OLUT]

As a collector of various percussion over under guns, I agree with "Old Gunsmith". His reading is spot on ...This type gun with two back action locks was the most common variety ( compared to swivel breech, mule ears, and the unique type using both a side lock and an under hammer mechanism). Your example is one of the better constructed "combination guns", although it is not engraved. Without a maker's stamp, in your gun's condition these tend to sell at auction in the $600 to $800 range. My bet is that this gun was made in the post civil war era (probably 1870's) The component parts were readily available commercially and similar firearms were often put together by part-time gunmakers. Guns like this were made primarily in NY and PA, but examples in my extensive collection range from Michigan & Wisconsin to Kentucky and even Toronto, Canada.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Looks like the gun carried by Paints his Shirt Red.