I am completely new to muzzleloading. I switched from modern scoped rifles to traditional archery to get away from the tech and "plasticy" feel of things. I had skipped black powder completely. I now have a very severe neck injury where I am not allowed to draw my bow or shoot anything with recoil...!!! A friend said that muzzleloading weapons do not have recoil. Is this true? It doesn't seem plausible considering the physics of propelling a large lead slug, but if anyone has any suggestions for this old cripple guy to get back into hunting, I would appreciate it. I am not overly interested in crossbows and the largest prey I would hunt would be axis deer and feral hogs here in Hawaii. Thanks in advance. Ken.
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I need advice!
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Blizzard of '93
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just like modern firearms the smaller MZL's have little recoil. the large bores do have, sometimes punishing depending on the loading.
If you mean no recoil at all I would be hesitant to recommend shooting anything. However, some muzzleloaders can be pretty heavy, so a light load in a smaller caliber will certainly produce less recoil than a modern, high-powered rifle.
Sounds like you need to be careful...
Spot
Sounds like you need to be careful...
Spot
its all relative...
black powder has a much lesser pressure curve thus less felt recoil. a .50 can thump you but nothing like say a 308,30-30 ect. a factory loaded 243 in modern gun has more felt recoil than a .50bp in my opinion.
BP is more of a push,modern is mmore sharp.
jarring your body....shoot a .45 or .50 for your pigs and axis, probly be good to go.
Of course,you could host a Rondy t5here at home and we could come overand play and show you all the ins and outs :wink:
...a south pacific Rondy...what a great idea
Brett
black powder has a much lesser pressure curve thus less felt recoil. a .50 can thump you but nothing like say a 308,30-30 ect. a factory loaded 243 in modern gun has more felt recoil than a .50bp in my opinion.
BP is more of a push,modern is mmore sharp.
jarring your body....shoot a .45 or .50 for your pigs and axis, probly be good to go.
Of course,you could host a Rondy t5here at home and we could come overand play and show you all the ins and outs :wink:
...a south pacific Rondy...what a great idea
Brett
Recipe for low recoil:
Heavy gun + light bullet + light powder load
All of which can be had with a muzzleloader for less money than a custom setup in a modern rifle.
There is no such thing as NO recoil, but it can be greatly reduced by combining the above factors.
A heavy gun means a large, wood stock and a long (36"), 1" or greater outside diameter barrel in a medium to low caliber (.45 or .32). You could also get away with a .50 caliber barrel but I'd not go any higher.
The lower caliber will greatly increase the choices of a low weight bullet, but if you intend to hunt deer or larger you need to make this as heavy as you can. Tough choice to make, but a good heavy gun can make it possible to find a good compromise. I'll defer to others on the best bullet choice here.
Powder load needs to be a compromise also, but if you can limit yourself to short range (50 yards or less) shots, you can drop the load significantly. Again, others are more expert on this than I.
Heavy gun + light bullet + light powder load
All of which can be had with a muzzleloader for less money than a custom setup in a modern rifle.
There is no such thing as NO recoil, but it can be greatly reduced by combining the above factors.
A heavy gun means a large, wood stock and a long (36"), 1" or greater outside diameter barrel in a medium to low caliber (.45 or .32). You could also get away with a .50 caliber barrel but I'd not go any higher.
The lower caliber will greatly increase the choices of a low weight bullet, but if you intend to hunt deer or larger you need to make this as heavy as you can. Tough choice to make, but a good heavy gun can make it possible to find a good compromise. I'll defer to others on the best bullet choice here.
Powder load needs to be a compromise also, but if you can limit yourself to short range (50 yards or less) shots, you can drop the load significantly. Again, others are more expert on this than I.
paulvallandigham
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If you are having medical problems you may not be able to shoot anything larger than a .22 short!
With ML rifles, There is no need to shoot "Large slugs " for the animals you say you may hunt. Depending on State Hunting regulations, you may be able to use as small a caliber as a .40, shooting a 95 grain round ball for hunting. Some states set .45 as the minimum caliber, and others have a minimum energy requirement at 100 yds. Check your regs.
You control recoil several ways using ML rifles. First, you shoot REAL BLACK POWDER, and not the stubstitutes. Second, you chose the granule size carefully. Normally, small bore guns ( under 50 caliber) are shot using FFFg powder. But you can also use FFg powder, which produces less chamber pressure, and therefore less recoil, than a comparable load of FFFg powder.
Third, you pick a gun that has a wide buttplate, and/ or a recoil pad. The width will spread and felt recoil over a wider portion of your shoulder, where a narrow buttplate will will hurt more.
Fourth, you use a gun that weighs more, and has a heavy barrel for the chosen caliber. Barrel weight helps to keep the muzzle from rising during recoil, which then puts any recoil forces directly back into your shoulder, rather than having some of the recoil lift the muzzle and slam the comb of the stock into your cheekbone.
Fifth, you can learn to use a different technique in shooting your gun, which spreads any recoil between both hands and shoulders, rather than all the recoil being taken by your dominant shoulder. See: [url] www.chuckhawks.com/controlling_heavy_recoil.htm[/url]
Because most hunting shots are going to be within 50 yards, there is no reason to be using heavy powder charges in your gun. Accurate placement of a RB is far more important for a clean kill than more powder. The Round Ball (RB) is very inferior ballistically, and sheds velocity very quickly once it leaves the muzzle. Much is lost in the first 20 yards. What goes faster also slows faster is a basic concept of Physics that controls your choice of powder charges in these guns.
In your shoes, I would pick a .45 caliber rifle, weighing 9 lbs. or more, and shoot a 50 grain charge of FFg powder, under a .440 RB with .015 patches, and Wonder lube on my patch. Your first gun can be a percussion side lock, but as you get better at all this, flintlocks will suck you down to the dark side, and you will join the rest of us, making sparks with rocks-- because we can, and because we take an added measure of pride when we take game using a flintlock!
Enjoy ML shooting.
With ML rifles, There is no need to shoot "Large slugs " for the animals you say you may hunt. Depending on State Hunting regulations, you may be able to use as small a caliber as a .40, shooting a 95 grain round ball for hunting. Some states set .45 as the minimum caliber, and others have a minimum energy requirement at 100 yds. Check your regs.
You control recoil several ways using ML rifles. First, you shoot REAL BLACK POWDER, and not the stubstitutes. Second, you chose the granule size carefully. Normally, small bore guns ( under 50 caliber) are shot using FFFg powder. But you can also use FFg powder, which produces less chamber pressure, and therefore less recoil, than a comparable load of FFFg powder.
Third, you pick a gun that has a wide buttplate, and/ or a recoil pad. The width will spread and felt recoil over a wider portion of your shoulder, where a narrow buttplate will will hurt more.
Fourth, you use a gun that weighs more, and has a heavy barrel for the chosen caliber. Barrel weight helps to keep the muzzle from rising during recoil, which then puts any recoil forces directly back into your shoulder, rather than having some of the recoil lift the muzzle and slam the comb of the stock into your cheekbone.
Fifth, you can learn to use a different technique in shooting your gun, which spreads any recoil between both hands and shoulders, rather than all the recoil being taken by your dominant shoulder. See: [url] www.chuckhawks.com/controlling_heavy_recoil.htm[/url]
Because most hunting shots are going to be within 50 yards, there is no reason to be using heavy powder charges in your gun. Accurate placement of a RB is far more important for a clean kill than more powder. The Round Ball (RB) is very inferior ballistically, and sheds velocity very quickly once it leaves the muzzle. Much is lost in the first 20 yards. What goes faster also slows faster is a basic concept of Physics that controls your choice of powder charges in these guns.
In your shoes, I would pick a .45 caliber rifle, weighing 9 lbs. or more, and shoot a 50 grain charge of FFg powder, under a .440 RB with .015 patches, and Wonder lube on my patch. Your first gun can be a percussion side lock, but as you get better at all this, flintlocks will suck you down to the dark side, and you will join the rest of us, making sparks with rocks-- because we can, and because we take an added measure of pride when we take game using a flintlock!
Enjoy ML shooting.
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Johnny Tremain
Silversmith in training
I concur on lighter loads. 120gr will whack you good, no matter what caliber.
I use 40-55gr 3f in my 45 cal and its as smooth as glass. There is a rearward tug.
My right arm is all tore up. I switched from my 54 cal 1803, and I can shoot all darn day.
I use 40-55gr 3f in my 45 cal and its as smooth as glass. There is a rearward tug.
My right arm is all tore up. I switched from my 54 cal 1803, and I can shoot all darn day.
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:hmm: I've never really given this much thought. I'm having problems myself but maybe not the same as you. I've got two disks in my neck that are melting away and causing numbness in my shoulders/arms/hands, comes and goes, some days better than others. I just spent yesterday morning shooting my smoothie didn't seem to bother me although I woke up this morning with a migrain. :hmm:
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""I woke up this morning with a migrain."" that wasn';t from the shootin.. that's from the gouge!
Thanks for the advice guys. I really appreciate it. I can't get BP here in the state due to shipping laws, but I can get Pyrodex and other simulated propellants. I like the 45 cal ideas with a lighter charge and I can see a flintlock in my future.
A rendezvous on a Maui beach? Sounds traditional to me.
Thanks again for your help. Ken.
A rendezvous on a Maui beach? Sounds traditional to me.
Thanks again for your help. Ken.
I would stay away from the crescent shaped buttstocks and go with something as flat as you can find this is a big factor on how a gun "kicks" the .45 isn't bad but with a physical limitation it would not hurt to be on the safe side, I started shooting only early style wide buttplated guns when my shoulder got worse and I can shoot a .62 with 90gr 3F in an Early Virginia gun from Chambers parts, a .50 cal with a crescent butt would hurt.
Johnny Tremain
Silversmith in training
tg said:
Good point, in fact I beat the curve out of my Virgina butt plate to flatten it even more
"...I like the 45 cal ideas with a lighter charge and I can see a flintlock in my future..."
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Unfortunately, I don't think you will see a flintlock in your future unless you move to the Continental States where you can buy real black powder.
Although some of the pseudo black powders claim to work in a flintlocks pan from what I've read none of them work well for priming.
They either won't reliably light from the sparks or they burn so slowly they won't create the hot flame front that is needed to travel thru the flash hole to the main charge.
They also do not work well without using a small amount of real black powder at the bottom of the main charge to ignite them.
These powders all have a ignition temperature requirement that is about twice as high as that of real black powder (800+ degrees vs 450 degrees).
If you are willing to settle on a Percussion gun, the new powders like Pyrodex, 777 etc will work for you and should provide a lot of fun.
zonie
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Unfortunately, I don't think you will see a flintlock in your future unless you move to the Continental States where you can buy real black powder.
Although some of the pseudo black powders claim to work in a flintlocks pan from what I've read none of them work well for priming.
They either won't reliably light from the sparks or they burn so slowly they won't create the hot flame front that is needed to travel thru the flash hole to the main charge.
They also do not work well without using a small amount of real black powder at the bottom of the main charge to ignite them.
These powders all have a ignition temperature requirement that is about twice as high as that of real black powder (800+ degrees vs 450 degrees).
If you are willing to settle on a Percussion gun, the new powders like Pyrodex, 777 etc will work for you and should provide a lot of fun.
zonie
paulvallandigham
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Why not arrange to have some black powder shipped to you by boat? There are boats sailing to Hawaii all the time from San Diego, and L.A. And there are private boaters who make the crossing as well. Not everything is flown into the islands.
There are strict shipping laws about black powder for some reason. Some shooting friends of mine used to sneak BP over about a decade ago. One of them would buy a gun safe while on the mainland and stuff it full of BP, then ship it over.......It sounded too much like a bomb to me, so I never got involved.
paulvallandigham
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The only strict laws I know about are from the damn FAA, but you should expect that kind of reaction after 9-11, event though black powder was not involved in that sad event.
This is something else we need to get Congress to correct, when we get the HazMat fee and the rediculous restrictions on where black powder can be stored by retailers ended.
This is something else we need to get Congress to correct, when we get the HazMat fee and the rediculous restrictions on where black powder can be stored by retailers ended.
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