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I NEED HELP BAD

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Bill; Did you use a round needle file on the lugs to open them or what? Also how much should I open them up?
Open them up with jeweler's saw. Takes about ten minutes to do four of them. Don't open them taller, it's longer that you want them so that when that thin barrel heats up and lengthens the pins won't bind in the slots. I'm going to guess that you'll notice your pins are already bent when you take them out of the stock. When you have the barrel out take a look at the breech end of the stock and see how much wood contact the breech of your barrel has been making.
 
Mike; Yes you are right the pins are bent, I had the barrel out a couple of weeks ago but didn't think much of it. So I my have to take out a small amount of wood in the breech end to releave the presure on the pins when I do the lugs? How much room should I give the pins? I'll have to find a jeweler's saw first.

Paul; I did use a caliper, the .609 to .613 depended on how I held the calipers so I measured again, came up with .613 Doc
 
That is an underbored barrel, and I would switch to using the .585 diameter balls. I don't think the .595 would give you enough room for a good thick lubed patch. I hesitate to use the .005, and .010" patches in these large bores. I think .012 to .015" patching is about as thin as one should expect to go. I have some pocket drill that compressed to .012". I have .015, .017, and .020 " pillow ticking, that seems to hold true to advertised measurements.

I recommend buying some Over powder cards. The Ox Yoke, 1/8" thick OP wads should work just fine, in the 20 ga. size, for you. ( If you don't already have them, drop me a note and I will send you what I have.) That will seal off the gases. I don't know your barrel length, but its probably longer than my 30 inch barrel on my fowler. I found that my patch did not lubricate the entire length of the barrel, no matter how much wonderlube I put on it. I would get crud dried and caked about 4-6 inches behind the muzzle. If I hit it quickly with a spit damped cleaning patch, it would break free, But it took a bit of scrubbing.

So, instead, I tried a trick learned from some chunk gun shooters, and ran a lubed cleaning patch down the barrel AFTER seating my PRB. My brother tried the same, and ran it over his chronograph. He tried the with and without testing, and found that he got a slight increase in velocity, but a substantial drop in SDV. He also found that the residue that was left in the barrel was easier( meaning faster) to clean after each shot. I found that after 3 shots, my barrel seemed to be easier to load with wads, and PRB, as some of the lube apparently worked its way into the pores of the barrel, and remained even after I had cleaned out the residue with both a spit-dampened patch, and a dry patch. That made loading subsequent balls much easier, but I saw no change in velocity, POI, group size, or in any build up of crud in the back of the barrel.

I think the added mass( weight ) of the thick OP wad helps to increase the chamber pressure and that in turn helps to burn the FFg powder granules more efficiently, and more completely. I don't find much in the way of large chunks of crud in the barrel any more, and the residue is no different than what I was used to getting using FFFg powder. Of course, that .600 ball weighs in at a hefty 325 grains more or less, and that certainly has something to do with raising chamber pressures.

You might also consider using 1/2" thick styrofoam, but you will need a punch in a drill press to cut them out. Being synthetic, the foam will not absorb lube, but it is extremely light weight, easily collapses, and fills the bore, blocking gases . The only down side is that you have to use these wads with some kind of OP wad, or OS card under them, or the powder will light the styrofoam on fire, creating a fire hazard in dry conditions. I have seen trapshooters using the styrofoam wads in their guns to very good effect.
I don't use them, because the materials are not what was available in the 19th century. Fillers, and paper wads were, and were used in combination with the PRB for the same reasons we should use them today.
 
You might try a temporary glued on rear sight just to see if cheekweld sight picture consistancy at 50 yards is your problem. Dont worry about elevation or windage with the temporary sight, just consistancy.............Bob
 
Paul;
The barrel is 41 1/2".
I have the Circle Fly wads, OP, Cushion, Over shot.I also punch out my own felt wads as needed. Thanks for the offer.
The styrofoam, I would rather not, not crazy about plastic.
Will I have to get a .585 mould made? I have never seen that size of ball or mould.
I took the barrel out this morning. I'll try to find a saw or bit later today to open up the lugs. Also I couldn't see anthing wrong with the breech area. The entry thimble tab was hitting the barrel so I removed a bit of metal from the tab, didn't take much. Doc
 
Doc Or said:
Mike; Yes you are right the pins are bent, I had the barrel out a couple of weeks ago but didn't think much of it. So I my have to take out a small amount of wood in the breech end to releave the presure on the pins when I do the lugs? How much room should I give the pins? I'll have to find a jeweler's saw first.
NO! don't take any wood from the breech! The pins are bending because of the wood growing and shrinking with humidity changes, and also less so from the barrel lengthening when it expands when it heats up. You need to cut out about 5/64" on either side of the hole to create the slot in the lug. I'm not sure what pin size you have in that gun, so use your own judgment. Small pins = less slot, large pins = more. Let me stress: you want a slot that is the same width as your pin height wise, but longer length wise so the pins can move forward and backward, not up and down.
z108.jpg
 
You might try a .570 or ,575 ball with a denim patch. I've seen guys have good results with those old centermarks shooting that ball/patch combo
 
Mike;
I didn't do anything to the breech area, didn't realy see anything wrong there. Thanks for the info on the saw. Can't get a saw until after noon so I'll have to work on it later. I've had this gun for a long time and it never did shoot balls worth a darn so I'm looking forward to getting it working. Doc
 
The information that is available from members here is amazing. Thanks for initiating this thread Doc, I'm learning right along with you about these smoothbores.

Gentlemen, thanks for offering your expertise to those of us just getting started with these guns. Mine's still on the workbench, but Mike's suggestion for the need to lengthen the pin slots will be instituted shortly.

This willingness to share information makes this Forum special indeed. Thanks. :hatsoff:
 
Many of these guys have been building and shooting for a long time. They know what their talking about and well worth listening to. Their a good bunch of fellows. Doc
 
When I experimented with the rear site idea, I made a temparary sight useing a thick piece of leather, at first i used electrical tape to attach it to the barrel and used a file to make a shallow groove as a refernce point. I then tested that therory and it worked to give a consistant point of inpact, I then glued it in place and cut the notch a little deeper. This made a drastic increase in accuracy, out to 75 yards it will easly keep all shots on a paper plate offhand.
 
Yes that is one of the things I am going to play with, a rear sight.

Right now I have gotten the lugs opened up [I went on the conservative side] and need to go back to the different loads.
Although I need to reread some of the sugetion already given, I'm ready for any more load sugetions. Doc
 
Up Date; Finaly got back to sighting in the De Chasse. I sloted the lugs as suggested and also taped on a rear sight for a consistent aiming point. The load that works the best as of now is 80gr. 2F, .010 lubed patch and .600 ball. This load at 50yrds was 2" high and 2" right. Three rounds touching, 1-1" left of first three, and 1-1" right of the first three, and one fligher to the right that was me. I'm going to try some other ball and patch combos but this is a lot more fun then ever before [no more fly balls]. Thanks to all for your advice and help. This gun is going deer hunting this year finaly. Doc Or
 
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