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I went shooting for the first time today!

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Stanley72

32 Cal.
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
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I got my Swedish mod 1815-46 back from the gunsmith this week and today i went shooting with black powder for the first time ever. :grin:
All i can say is; THIS IS THE MOST FUN YOU CAN HAVE WITH YOUR CLOTHES ON!! sorry for the caps but im jumping up and down here! :grin:

One thing that bothers me tho...

I know that smoothbores is supposed to be somewhat inacurate... The first 5 shots went great they where all in a nice cluster inside the 8 from a little over 50 yards standing position. but after that it went downhill fast by the 9th shot fired i couldnt even hit the target sitting down with a rest...
I figure i must be doing something wrong...? Do the fouling of the barrel really matter THAT much?
The caliber is.69 and im using 50grain loads of ff black powder.

Perhaps you can give me some pointers in the right direction?
Thank you!

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It sure sounds like a fouling problem. Just run a wet patch followed by a dry patch through the bore after each shot. That will keep the bore fouling from building up. It sounds as if you could wait until after five or six shots to swab the bore but you will just have more fouling to swab out if you do. Swabbing after each shot will keep the bore the same for each shot. Accuracy with a black powder rifle depends largly on consistancy in everything that you do. Swabbing after each shot will keep the bore consistant from shot to shot.
 
Sounds like you're hooked for sure now. :grin:

You COULD shoot with yer clothes off... but please DON'T post the pics. :haha:

Billnpatti gives sound advice. :thumbsup: Try and keep things as consistent as possible for best repeatable accuracy. Have fun and be safe. And welcome to the Forum. :hatsoff:
 
Just use some real slick patch lube and forget about cleaning between shots! I do this and can shoot my .69 caliber Charleyville on a 20 round trail walk without cleaning between shots. It works with the smaller caliber guns also.
Look through these threads as there are some good
posts on patch lube.
 
try using a brass bore brush between shots . put muzzle down and tap side of gun after using brush.works good and keeps bore dry and one shot dirty.
just a thought to keep it simple
 
I guess fouling really matters THAT much, i could never have imagined...
Dont worry guys i´ll keep my clothes on :grin:
Next time i´ll bring the brass brush along and se if the results are better.
Like someone said above, im hooked for sure, i cant wait to get to the range again. But im afraid it wont be much shooting before beginning of august. I´m a new member at the club and arent yet allowed out on the range without the supervision of a member and with summer vacations comming up i guess it will be hard to find someone to supervise me. Anyways thanks for the pointers. I figure i will have more questions as i sink deeper into the blackpowder addiction... :grin:
 
I can shoot my Bess for 20 shots without swabbing. My load is only thumb tight I don't have to short start it.

My guess is that since this is a new gun, there is something binding the barrel as it gets hot. It shoots great cold, but as the barrel heats up it gets more and more inaccurate. This can happen when the barrel heats and expands and the wood stock doesn't move. Pins or keys holding the barrel to the wood serve as a binding point and will cause the barrel to warp as it expands.

Your new gun is military with the barrel bands. I don't have any experience with one of those, but my guess is that at least one of the barrel bands is too tight and is the cause of the problem.

We probably need one of the NSSA shooters to weigh in here because they are more familiar with barrel bands than I am.

Many Klatch
 
My gun isnt exactly new, its got a manufacturing stamp on the barrel and its dated 1843. But if you mean new to me then yes its new =)
But anyway, new or not the bands dont really feel very tight, there is some rattle to them even when hot. Not like they are rattling by themselves but i can still move them a tiny bit even if hot.
 
Well if it is over 100 years old, it certainly has had time to get broken in. :grin:

50 grains of 2F powder is a little light. 60 grains would probably be better. Try a patch ball combination that can be pushed down the barrel with a finger. Spit patch should do fine. I use a .010 patch on my .72 caliber ball.

The 2F should work well, but you could try 3F because it shoots cleaner. In that case the 50 grains that you are using would be enough for starters.

Have fun. I find that it takes me about a year of regular shooting and fiddling with a new gun before I can figure out what load it likes and how it likes to be treated.

Many Klatch
 
What is your loading procedure? I know your using 50 grains of bp, but what projectile and patching material? What type of lube are you using?

Nice looking gun there! :thumbsup:

I never swab between shots, and can run all day! Here is what I use, and really like it!

Hoppes No. 9 black powder solvent and patch lube.
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There are hundreds of other patch lube combos as well!
 
I have measured the caliber again. it´s .73 and im using .688 lead bullets with .018 cotton patch. For lube im using hoppes no 9. Perhaps the bullets are a little small? i asked at the gunsmith who also provided the bullets. He said that it wasnt advisable to preasure a gun that old to much, even if it checked out ok.
 
Regarding patch lube, how much do you use? as i use it now my patches are barely damp with the stuff. Perhaps i use to little? Tried not to put on too much lube, afraid of wetting the powder...
 
Don't you think that you have answered your own question?

Yes, cleaning between shots has that much great effect on continued accuracy of these guns! Use a piece of flannel cotton ( cleaning patch), dampen it lightly- like by wiping it over a wet tongue-YOURS!-- and run it down the barrel IN STAGES. Pull it back a bit every once in a while. I do my barrel in 3rds, one third down, pull back out a bit, then another third, pull back a bit, and then to to bottom of my flintlock, with the flat faced breechplug. On any percussion gun, I stop my rod and the patch 1 inch ABOVE the breechplug, so that I am not shoving crud back and down against it's face. Push and packing crud back there makes it all the harder to remove.

I pull my rod and patch out of the gun, and inspect the patch. If its really damp, and greasy looking, I throw it in my garbage can( a used coffee can works here, but anything you have works as well) and dampen a second patch and this time go to the bottom of the barrel to pull out any crud that is back there. The second patch usually comes out looking "drier" than the first, so Now is the time to run a third patch down to dry the barrel complete in anticipation of the next load. ONLY when its actually raining do I find I have to run more than one drying patch down the barrel, but again, Reading the patches tells me what is going on in the barrel, and how much extra work to do.

There are alternative you can do to cleaning, but none of them have delivered the kind of accuracy I want from my gun.

The Wonderlube folks have bought into the hype of the company to just use MORE lube on your patches, and the lube will soften and clean out the crud. Some claim they shoot lots of bullets all day long without ever having to clean.

Then, others are using a much smaller diameter ball than their bore size, and thicker patches, and claim that this combination produces fine accuracy. It has not been so for me. I envy these guys, if they are actually getting consistent accuracy and can shoot all day without cleaning.

The back of my neck, and my own testing over many years off a bench rest, along with other members of my club, who also wanted to know the answers to consistent performance without cleaning, and then what kind of cleaning was necessary to give very good accuracy( "If you are going to have to go to the "trouble" of cleaning after every shot, you may as well figure out what gives you those ONE HOLE groups off a rest at 50 yards", said one of the senior members of my club back when I was a newbie).

Every time some new Lube came out with fantastic claims, the club members would all try the stuff out, with three or four guys testing the stuff in their guns to see what results occurred. The agreement was that if we got a ball stuck, the rest of us had to help them pull it( Before the days of CO2 devices). I helped pull a lot of lead balls stuck in barrels. It didn't matter what the brand or make of the gun was- old or replica. The guy who tried the undersized ball and thick patch, no matter how much lube he put on the patching, got 2" groups at best, and the group opened steadily to about 6" off a rest. We had other good shooters shoot these guys guns with the trial loads to see if the "human factor " explained the bad performance, but found that even our very best target shooters could not improve much on those groups. Yet, when that same gun was cleaned, and then shot with a larger- more common-- diameter lead ball, with a tight patch, and lube, it was capable of shooting one hole groups with all the shooters.

The same thing happened with using" More Lube". To be fair, we did these experiments in the Fall, after the Fall National Shoot at Friendship, where people picked up the new LUBE. The air is dryer in the Fall, and on some days darn right ARID- like you might expect to find out West on the high desert plateau. But those are our local hunting conditions here in Illinois. If you live in a coastal State, or hunt anywhere its mostly always humid, and never drops below 32 degrees, using more LUBE may just work better for you, than it did here for us.

I can assure you from both personal experience, and from observing all my friends struggle with their guns in January- March, that when its really below freezing, or below zero, Wonderlube is just not all that wonderful by itself. We began lubing our patches with ISP alcohol ( 92%) in the winter months, and also used the alcohol to clean the barrel, in lieu of spit. I have done some of my most accurate shooting in Below Zero temperatures, in January, when you went into the shooting shack to warm up around the pop bellied stove between shots fired.

Best wishes shooting the new " old " gun. It looks like a winner. :hatsoff:

P.S. I started out using Black Solve by Hoppes, and we have also tried the newer solvent/lube show above. It works fine in warm or hot conditions. Its not so good in freezing temperatures, because it is water based. Some guys add anti-freeze to the mix for wintertime use- it might work. Water will foul your powder charge unless you use an OP wad on top of the powder to act both as a fire barrier, and to stop fluids from seeping back into the powder from your patch.

Others do as I have decided to do, and simply use alcohol in freezing conditions.

Since Sweden is a bit NORTH of most of the lower 48 states here on the other side of the pond, I suspect that you probably have more Winter months than summer months during which you can shoot. Take that into consideration when working up loading techniques, and when accepting advice from all of us. :thumbsup:
 
On the barrel bands, as a rabid shooter of 1816s and Charleyvilles, if the bands are loose you can cut thin strips of paper the same size of the band
and place these on the stock oppisite where the bands go. The paper will compress somewhat allowing a snug fit of the bands. I have had muskets that required 3 different thicknesses of paper for the three bands. You need a snug fit of the barrel bands. You do not nned to beat the bands on with a hammer, just snug and not moving.
This should tighten up your groups. Also have you checked your bore for pits and rough spots? Many originals have these. These will sometimes pull a patch off the ball. This can be stopped by loading the patched ball on top of a fiber wad or some kind of wad thet will push the patced ball out of the muzzle without giving it a chance to snag on a rough spot. That is a fine looking musket!!
 
Congratulate to a nice old warhorse :thumbsup: Hope you don't mind if i add some info about the gun you have. The load it used when it saw service was 129.3Gr and the ball meassuerd 18,55mm. It has been converted from from flintlock.Remember that the load mentiond above used powder of that era and no patching.
Math
 
Thanks for the info regarding the gun! 129grain load isnt that a heck of a load? Don´t think i´ll ever dare to put that kind of a load into my old lady :shocked2: Nice by the way to see a fellow swede here :grin:
I want to thank all cotributors to this thread, you have provided me with alot of info and many things to try out. Please feel free to add more if you can think of anything.
 
It is true the military did not use patches, just an undersized ball with paper to cut down the effects of fouling. the old 1834 Springfield I used to shoot had the bore so pitted up I could not use a patch. So I used a bore diameter ball
riding on top of a shotgun ( muzzleloading ) wad column. Just like the muzzle loading shotgunners
the series of hard and flimsy wads knocks down the fouling so you can shoot a long time before cleaning. I also uglied up the ball between two bastard files to raise the outside diameter of the ball so it would fit very snug in the bore.

That all of the little tricks I know :thumbsup:
 
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