ID help please?

[Tbache]

Hi folks,
I recently bought a muzzleloader. After getting it home I started some research. It appears to be a CVA, barrel says “Spain”, serial 39271.
It says 45 Cal, and has another symbol I don’t recognise. We made a preliminary cleaning, used a boroscope and can see light through the cap nipple. It has grooves and lands, not rifled. It appears to have some pitting at the end of the barrel. Is this a problem? We have it set up on the table with PB blaster JIC the cap nipple has to be replaced.
I am interested in the collective wisdom-does the nipple need to be replaced? Safe to fire? Pros/cons on the grooves/lands vs spiral rifling? We are hoping to shoot it a few times then hang it over the fireplace.

 

[TreeMan]

Yeah that nipple definitely needs replaced and the whole gun needs a good cleaning. The lands and groves you’re seeing is rifling. It’s probably a very slow trust rifling for roundballs so to your eye looking down the bore it doesn’t look like it has a spin. It does.

 

[mooman76]

I'm guessing not a CVA but that is just an educated guess and really is beside the point. Spain early on made guns for many many companies and they merely put their name on them. I don't recall seeing a powder drum like that one. A picture of the whole gun would be good. Yes the nipple is in bad shape but nipples only cost a few dollars and the gun should shoot fine after a good cleanup. I agree with Treeman on this.

 

[Davey Boy]

Looks to me like a nicely made rifle with parts that fit well. I would love to find one like that. Do a search on this site using Spain or Spain 45 Cal and see what comes up. Check your local area for Muzzleloading group and visit them at the range when they go shooting.

 

[bluemule66]

By the drum and mark on the barrel, I would say it is a Mendi.

 

[TFoley]

Agreed. Long-gone now.

 

[Tbache]

Thank you for the lead on Mendi. This name hadn’t come up before. All the pictures of CVA I have seen today didn’t seem to quite match up. Went to three gun stores to find everything we need, new nipples, the tool, various cleaning rods and brushes.etc. Mendi was a winner, internet picture has the same patch box in the stock!
I have attached a couple more pictures. We took gun shop tip and fired a couple of caps and it worked fine, but will change the nipple anyway. We have already dusassembled the gun and I polished the brass shoulder stock end cap and the cover for the patch box. Came out very nice.
Next question is what color to treat the metal. I didn’tbthink blueing was quite right although under the fore stock that seems to be what was before. We just bought plum brown. Or should the barrel and other steel parts be black?

 

[Roundball2319]

Best of luck on restoring it to a great shooter. With your elbow grease and hard work it will be a proud firearm to own.

 

[SDSmlf]

By the drum and mark on the barrel, I would say it is a Mendi.

Agree. Here is a photo of a Mendi I own. Look at the bolster/nipple area. If not Mendi, likely same manufacturer.

 

[Tbache]

Wow! That is an interesting looking piece. Some sort of a boarding gun?
Info for Mendi seems scarce. We did find an auction picture from 2 years ago, that is very similar to mine. Have you ever run across anyplace that had serial number information?

 

[SDSmlf]

Wow! That is an interesting looking piece. Some sort of a boarding gun?
Info for Mendi seems scarce. We did find an auction picture from 2 years ago, that is very similar to mine. Have you ever run across anyplace that had serial number information?

Never really looked for serial number info. It’s been years since they were manufactured, probably the 1970s. I had looked up information on Mendi at one time and if I remember correctly, they merged with another company and eventually supplied guns to CVA.

I ‘fire’ this one on occasion, bringing it out on the 4th or anytime there is crowd and need or want an obnoxious noise maker. Put balloons up a few feet in front of the kids, load 30/50 grains or so of whatever is ‘excess inventory’ powder under a cottonball, and enough ‘stuff’ comes out of the muzzle to pop balloons, make smoke and a big boom.

 

[Eric Krewson]

Your picture of the end of the barrel and the crud tells me the barrel is ruined from lack of proper cleaning. You can scrub it out with steel wool and oil, some of the crud will come out but it is unlikely that you will have a good shooter when you are done, the bore is probably deeply pitted.

I tried to fix a similar barrel for a friend, I got rid of the crud but the barrel never would shoot a good group, there wasn't much rifling left in the bore.

Here is his barrel, much like yours.

 

[Tbache]

Thanks for the insight. This started as a wall hanger and then took on a life of its own. We have the barrel really clean now, but the grooves aren’t well defined to my untrained eye. We used the borescope to see what might be possible. Now to find a place local and try it out.

 

[SDSmlf]

Thanks for the insight. This started as a wall hanger and then took on a life of its own. We have the barrel really clean now, but the grooves aren’t well defined to my untrained eye. We used the borescope to see what might be possible. Now to find a place local and try it out.

Have to agree with @Eric Krewson, from your photograph,

that bore looks to be beyond it’s use by date after being ignored. If you intend to shoot it, suggest a light load, maybe 30 grains max to start, and a relatively loose fitting patched roundball. Can see a tight fitting patched roundball getting stuck, creating a whole new thread topic. Personally, I don’t see any reason to load a barrel in that condition with anything other than a blank load if I just had to hear it go boom. Just my opinion.

 

[Eric Krewson]

As a footnote, my friend shot pydrodex, death to a barrel if you don't clean it meticulously, he didn't.

Post some of your bore scope pictures, I would be interesting to see how well the bore cleaned up.

 

[TFoley]

Here is a list of Spanish gunmakers in the city of Eibar in 1972. Eibar, in the Basque Region of Northern Spain, is THE centre for the small arms trade and has been for centuries. Prior to the Spanish Civil War there were literally thousands of little part makers, assemblers, barrel-makers and complete gun-makers there. Most, if not all, of the smaller shops are gone, along with Mendi.


The following is a list of Asociacion Armera Members for the year 1972. There may be a few retailers amongst them.

Aguirre Y Aranzabal, SRC
Amuategui, Martin
Anitua, Francisco
Aramberri Hermanos, SRC
Arana Alberto, Javier
Arizaga, Gaspar
Armas EGO
Armas El Corzo
Armad garbi
Armas Ilja
Armas Marixa
Armeria Parkemi
Arrizabalaga, Luis
Arrizabalaga, Pedro
Ayra Durex, S.A.
Belategui, Juan Antonio
Bilbatua, Eugenio
Comercial Vasco Armera
Crucelegui Hermanos, SRC
C.Y.T. Bascaran, SRC
Chopitea, Jose Maria
Gorosabel, Pedro
Hijos de F. Arizaga
Hijos de V. Amberri Y cia, SRC
Hijos De J. Muguruza
Ibeas Rosuero, Antonio
Laurona Armas, SA
Madariaga Urquidi, Antonio
Manugfacturas JCM - JCM Suc.
Marcos Ralea, Antonio
Mendi, SCI
Norberto Arizmendi, SA
Sarasqueta, Adolfo
Star-Bonifacio Echeverria. SA
Suc. De E. Guisasola
Suc. De Vda. E Hijos De J. Fernandez
Trust Eibarres
Ugartreburu, Martin
Ugartechea, Ignacio
Union Armera, SL (AKA: Grulla)
Uriguen, Jose
Victor Sarasqueta, SA (AKA: Rifles Y Escopetas, SA)
VDA. E. Hijos DE J. J. Sarasqueta
Zamacola Hermanos, SRC
Zubiaurre Arrizabalaga, Juan (Suc. de M. Garagarza)
Zubillaga, Ignacio
Armas Gib. Maximo Bolinaga
Zabala Hermanos, SRC
Armas Erbi, SCI
Armas Urbiola
Arosa Aguirre, Pedro
Manufacturas Arrieta
Sarriugarte, Francisco
Felix Sarasqueta Y Cia, SA
Larranaga, Miguel
Suc. De Ebsebio Arizaga, SRC
Industrias Danok
Astra-Unceta Y Cia, S
Carrero Y Astelarra, SL
G. Zabala Y Cia., SA
Zabala, Ascensio
Garate Y Mendibe, SA
Hijos De Orbea, SA
Llama-Gabilondo Y Cia., SA
Union Explosivos Rio Tinto, SA

Other old names that I've encountered include:

Hijos de Jose Maistegui
Ibarlucea, Jose Maria

 

[Tbache]

Thank you. That is an extraordinary list. I will attempt to see if any still exist.