Idaho Muzzleloader

[toot]

Welcome.

 

[Reds]

2010 I shot one of my largest cow elk with a TC .54 Hawkens 92gr of pyrodex and a maxiball. She did not go 40 yards, in front of chest out rear of opposite front leg at 60 yards. hard to beat those results A!!!

 

[renegadehunter]

I have a .54 TC Renegade that I shoot patched roundball (PRB) out of a lot. Since it sounds like you might be leaning that way, I thought I'd share what works really well in mine. I'd also mention that PRB is much more pleasant recoil wise than a 425 grain conical, your wife will likely appreciate the difference.

The best load I've found for mine is a pillow ticking patch, very lightly lubed with Track of the Wolf's Mink oil (barely enough to coat the whole patch out to the edges, I apply it by hand), with a .530 RB, and either 80 to 85 grains of 2f or 75 to 80 grains of 3f (by VOLUME, not weight).
CVA sells a pillow ticking patch that works well in my experience, if you'd rather not make your own, they claim it is a .015" patch but it is more like .017".
I've always used Goex or Schuetzen, but I'd think that 80-85 grains of Pyrodex "rifle" or 75-80 grains of "pistol" should yield close to the same results.

I can use a .015" cotton patch with a .535" RB, with the other components being the same, and get nearly the same group.
Mine very much doesn't like a .010" patch, I wouldn't recommend anything less than a .015" patch.

The PRB combo is tight enough that I prefer to swab between shots, just to ease loading a bit (best to pop a cap after swabbing, to ensure patent breech is clear before loading up again). I can shoot without swabbing to about 3 shots before it gets right unpleasant to push the PRB down the barrel.

The below pic is from the last time I shot the above load combo, 50 yards from a sandbag rest with open sights. 4 shots. That stupid hole by itself on the left was my 3rd shot, right disappointing it was.
Best of luck to you and your wife in finding a nice Idaho Mule deer to put in the freezer.

 

[lone hunter]

Check out No Excuses at

Come buy our muzzle loading bullets. They are simply the best available.

Good stuff

Just ordered some from them, heard good reports.

 

[slspletskp]

Agreed!

 

[Center_shot]

You are really missing out on a chance (excuse) to by a new muzzle loader......a nice Hawken with a 1:60 barrel for patched round balls would be an idea.

 

[Ttownhunter]

I appreciate all your help guys. I took your advice and started shooting patched round balls (.530) out of the 54 cal Thompson Center Renegade.

I have had considerable trouble developing the load. I am shooting loose triple 7 powder. I started at 50 yards shooting 70 grains and shot consistently high. I first, started moving the back sight down. when it hit the bottom of the back sight, I started reducing the load by 5 grains.

The best I could come up with is 55 grains which hit 6 inches high at 50, but at 100 with open sights I am all over the place. I am puzzled. Any suggestions?

 

[Brokenbear]

I appreciate all your help guys. I took your advice and started shooting patched round balls (.530) out of the 54 cal Thompson Center Renegade.

I have had considerable trouble developing the load. I am shooting loose triple 7 powder. I started at 50 yards shooting 70 grains and shot consistently high. I first, started moving the back sight down. when it hit the bottom of the back sight, I started reducing the load by 5 grains.

The best I could come up with is 55 grains which hit 6 inches high at 50, but at 100 with open sights I am all over the place. I am puzzled. Any suggestions?

Well I have to point out that some folks ..me being one of them ..just don't gee-haw with the original sights that come on a Renegade ..and it sounds to me like you or the boss are not either ..it has been a long time ago since I changed my Renegades over but Williams, Marbles, Lyman all built the sights and I am pretty sure I used Williams and the replacement rear sight just used the factory sight screw holes and the front was dove tailed for a knock out drive in front sight install ..one cup of coffee and you are headed to sight it in!

Just a suggestion since time is a wasting!

Bear

 

[chorizo]

Hello, I am to the form I’m and looking for some advice. To say that I have a love for muzzleloaders is an understatement. I own 5. Only 2 of them are percussion cap guns though. A 50 cal Marksbury and a 54 cal Thompson Center Renegade. Both with open sights.

I have always shot copper bullets. Sabots, Thor bullets and powerbelts. They have worked well for me. My dilemma is that my wife drew a decent muzzleloader mule deer tag in Idaho which requires the use of percussion cap, loose powder, lead round ball or conical and open sight rifle.

I don’t have a problem with these regs except for the bullet part. I was thinking about shooting a conical in the 50 cal Marksbury but I don’t know where to start. Should it have a smooth wall bullet or grooved for lube? Paper wrapped or cloth wad? Do I need to harden the lead bullets? Is there a brand of lead conical that you think performs well?

I was planning on using 100 grains of loose pyrodex. Is that too much? Is there something better?

I appreciate your help. I am really struggling on developing a load that I think will perform like I am used to.

100 grs pyrodex RS select over a 375 grain deerslayer bullet in 54 cal out of a 24" 1:48 twist CVA Frontier Hunter. She went 20 yards. Shot at 85 yards

Using a Williams firesight front in red and a firesight ghost ring in green

An Idaho elk.



I just developed a new load for that gun. 100 grains Triple 7 2F over the deerslayer bullet. 1.5" groups at 50 yards. Sighted in at 3" high at 50 yards gives me 3/4 " high at 100 yards with 3.5" groups.

Definitely minute of elk. A bit stout, but happy with the accuracy. Better than the Pyrodex RS for sure.

https://smile.amazon.com/Williams-B...ms+fire+sights+thompson+center,aps,140&sr=8-1
https://smile.amazon.com/Williams-G...ms+fire+sights+thompson+center,aps,140&sr=8-2

 

[oldwood]

Welcome from Pa..

 

[gunpa]

Taller front sight will get you down in the money. Even 50 to 70 thousandth will make a big difference.

 

[Ozark Mtn Muzzleloader]

What you guys are saying makes perfect sense. We will definitely take the Renegade.

Rock Home Isle. I totally understand what you are saying with the nostalgia behind shooting patched round ball. I am good with that. You guy helping me with definitely get me off on the right foot and will help tremendously. Thank you.

Being that it’s a 54 caliber the bullet selection isn’t what it is for a 50. I don’t think it will be a problem finding round balls, but I am not finding any conicals. They must be lead due to the Idaho regs.

What do you guys recommend for 54 caliber round balls and conicals? Everything I have read states that having the right hardness is important for both performance and to minimize fouling when shooti

I have a .54 TC Renegade that I shoot patched roundball (PRB) out of a lot. Since it sounds like you might be leaning that way, I thought I'd share what works really well in mine. I'd also mention that PRB is much more pleasant recoil wise than a 425 grain conical, your wife will likely appreciate the difference.

The best load I've found for mine is a pillow ticking patch, very lightly lubed with Track of the Wolf's Mink oil (barely enough to coat the whole patch out to the edges, I apply it by hand), with a .530 RB, and either 80 to 85 grains of 2f or 75 to 80 grains of 3f (by VOLUME, not weight).
CVA sells a pillow ticking patch that works well in my experience, if you'd rather not make your own, they claim it is a .015" patch but it is more like .017".
I've always used Goex or Schuetzen, but I'd think that 80-85 grains of Pyrodex "rifle" or 75-80 grains of "pistol" should yield close to the same results.

I can use a .015" cotton patch with a .535" RB, with the other components being the same, and get nearly the same group.
Mine very much doesn't like a .010" patch, I wouldn't recommend anything less than a .015" patch.

The PRB combo is tight enough that I prefer to swab between shots, just to ease loading a bit (best to pop a cap after swabbing, to ensure patent breech is clear before loading up again). I can shoot without swabbing to about 3 shots before it gets right unpleasant to push the PRB down the barrel.

The below pic is from the last time I shot the above load combo, 50 yards from a sandbag rest with open sights. 4 shots. That stupid hole by itself on the left was my 3rd shot, right disappointing it was.
Best of luck to you and your wife in finding a nice Idaho Mule deer to put in the freezer.
View attachment 148588

Wonderful post

 

[gunpa]

No Excuses Bullets makes conicals that shoot great in a 1/48. 54 caliber is no problem. 50 bullets per box. Worth every$$. Look them up online. I use them for my MZ hunts. I'm in Idaho myself.

 

[Christophero]

Unfortunately, your front sight post is too short.

BUT, for the immediate time being finding your load is the most important job. Keep shooting the various combinations until you come upon that which will perforate the kill zone of a mule deer out to 100 yards. It doesn't matter where the group lands on paper as long as a good, usable group emerges from your range testing. THEN, address your front sight as it pertains to the Point of Impact.

If you have the window of opportunity to order a taller front sight, install it and adjust it to your group that is optimal.

Should you be in a pinch, running low on time and need to get this rifle ready for the hunt pronto here is s suggestion:
Clean your front sight with degreaser, apply masking tape to the sides of the front sight, lightly file the top of that wide partridge sight, just to give it a bit of roughness, mix up JB Weld thick and daub on to the top of the sight, the light grooves from the file will give the JB Weld purchase to hold fast. Those are long, angled front sight posts, at least mine purchased in the Fall of 1987 is, so only a small portion of the sight topped with the JB Weld is really necessary, doesn't need to be applied the whole length, especially as those posts slope down toward the front of the barrel. The idea is to create a taller front sight post to lower the muzzle of the barrel to hit Point of Aim.

The formula to then know how much to change your front post to impact the POA is:

Sight Radius X Amount the Bullet is hitting high (or low) Divided by the distance to the target

My 50 Caliber T/C Renegade has a 26" barrel BUT the rear sight to the front sight radius is 19.2". Multiplying this by the 6" you mentioned with the 55 grain load equals 115.2. Because you were high 6" at 50 yards then you will divide 115.2 by 1,800" (50 yards). This means you need to have your sight .064" higher than it is now according the the formula for this task. For the sake of being confident that the new, or extended original sight post is high enough to get the job done make it an additional 1/8" (.125") to give room to file ever so carefully to bring the Point of Impact to where you really want it is best. Personally a 2" high trajectory at 50 yards is pretty much where I want to be at 100 yards with 50 caliber PRB or Conicals. 54 Caliber PRB or Conical bullets are said to drop faster due to weight. I am very new to the 54 world and cannot not answer that with utmost authority, but others can be of assistance with that.

I hope you the best in getting this rifle sighted in and for your wife's storied success this Fall. 35 years ago my wife shot her first deer with my 50 cal Renegade and a T/C Maxi Hunter bullet, off hand at 45 yards. She was not a big woman in any way, but could shoot that rifle rather well. Because the butt plate is not curved but more like a shotgun felt recoil is nothing like a Hawkin type buttstock. My T/C's always shot conicals very well. The Lee REAL bullet might be a good option if the PRB's don't pan out. Give a shout out. One of these fine gents should have a couple dozen they could provide. All for a good cause.

 

[jimairwin]

I appreciate all your help guys. I took your advice and started shooting patched round balls (.530) out of the 54 cal Thompson Center Renegade.

I have had considerable trouble developing the load. I am shooting loose triple 7 powder. I started at 50 yards shooting 70 grains and shot consistently high. I first, started moving the back sight down. when it hit the bottom of the back sight, I started reducing the load by 5 grains.

The best I could come up with is 55 grains which hit 6 inches high at 50, but at 100 with open sights I am all over the place. I am puzzled. Any suggestions?

Very often reducing powder charge can raise POI.Muzzle has longer to rise. Such was my logic at a musket championship where military iron sight had to be used at all distange.I reduced to 35 grains 2Fg to get my Colt musket on target at such short range. Also set the West Coast record at 200 yards using the standard load of 60 grains under a 575-213 Minie' ball.

 

[TDM]

Unfortunately, your front sight post is too short.

BUT, for the immediate time being finding your load is the most important job. Keep shooting the various combinations until you come upon that which will perforate the kill zone of a mule deer out to 100 yards. It doesn't matter where the group lands on paper as long as a good, usable group emerges from your range testing. THEN, address your front sight as it pertains to the Point of Impact.

If you have the window of opportunity to order a taller front sight, install it and adjust it to your group that is optimal.

Should you be in a pinch, running low on time and need to get this rifle ready for the hunt pronto here is s suggestion:
Clean your front sight with degreaser, apply masking tape to the sides of the front sight, lightly file the top of that wide partridge sight, just to give it a bit of roughness, mix up JB Weld thick and daub on to the top of the sight, the light grooves from the file will give the JB Weld purchase to hold fast. Those are long, angled front sight posts, at least mine purchased in the Fall of 1987 is, so only a small portion of the sight topped with the JB Weld is really necessary, doesn't need to be applied the whole length, especially as those posts slope down toward the front of the barrel. The idea is to create a taller front sight post to lower the muzzle of the barrel to hit Point of Aim.

The formula to then know how much to change your front post to impact the POA is:

Sight Radius X Amount the Bullet is hitting high (or low) Divided by the distance to the target

My 50 Caliber T/C Renegade has a 26" barrel BUT the rear sight to the front sight radius is 19.2". Multiplying this by the 6" you mentioned with the 55 grain load equals 115.2. Because you were high 6" at 50 yards then you will divide 115.2 by 1,800" (50 yards). This means you need to have your sight .064" higher than it is now according the the formula for this task. For the sake of being confident that the new, or extended original sight post is high enough to get the job done make it an additional 1/8" (.125") to give room to file ever so carefully to bring the Point of Impact to where you really want it is best. Personally a 2" high trajectory at 50 yards is pretty much where I want to be at 100 yards with 50 caliber PRB or Conicals. 54 Caliber PRB or Conical bullets are said to drop faster due to weight. I am very new to the 54 world and cannot not answer that with utmost authority, but others can be of assistance with that.

I hope you the best in getting this rifle sighted in and for your wife's storied success this Fall. 35 years ago my wife shot her first deer with my 50 cal Renegade and a T/C Maxi Hunter bullet, off hand at 45 yards. She was not a big woman in any way, but could shoot that rifle rather well. Because the butt plate is not curved but more like a shotgun felt recoil is nothing like a Hawkin type buttstock. My T/C's always shot conicals very well. The Lee REAL bullet might be a good option if the PRB's don't pan out. Give a shout out. One of these fine gents should have a couple dozen they could provide. All for a good cause.

Great information. Again, I learn something new everyday.

 

[Sixgun_Symphony]

Patched ball will get the job done and with far less recoil than the heavy conicals. It may be the best choice for women and youth. Just make sure she gets enough range time to become a proficient marksman with her weapon.

 

[Sixgun_Symphony]

I appreciate all your help guys. I took your advice and started shooting patched round balls (.530) out of the 54 cal Thompson Center Renegade.

I have had considerable trouble developing the load. I am shooting loose triple 7 powder. I started at 50 yards shooting 70 grains and shot consistently high. I first, started moving the back sight down. when it hit the bottom of the back sight, I started reducing the load by 5 grains.

The best I could come up with is 55 grains which hit 6 inches high at 50, but at 100 with open sights I am all over the place. I am puzzled. Any suggestions?

Try using a felt wad between the patched ball and powder.