Idaho "open ignition" question from a newbie

[kwlskeeter]

Hi everyone (sorry to be so wordy!!)

I have been hunting my whole life but am new to black-powder firearms. I have always wanted one. This forum is excellent (!) and have learned a lot in a couple of days. There is more to this than I realized! I am excited to get into hunting with my first "smoke pole"... which will need to be an over-the-counter one for now... as I just don't have time nor talent probably to start assembling my own.

SO: Idaho has embraced "traditional" rules, which I think is great. I even got ahead of myself a bit, and applied for a pronghorn controlled hunt with the rifle I do not yet own (and drew a tag). I DO have time to buy this rifle and practice and become proficient with it.

Here is my question: Idaho shows two pictures of "open ignition" on their web-page. Here is the link which describes the required weapon; basically saying on page 88:
Equipped with an ignition system in which any portion of the cap is exposed or visible when the weapon is cocked and ready to fire.

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/docs/rules/bgRules.pdf

The link to "more information" repeats the rules but shows TWO pictures of such an open igntion...

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/hunt/rules/?getPage=299

But... I am a bit concerned about the exposed "hammer" on most traditional guns. It would seem to me (newbie) that the second picture they show has no exposed hammer which might get hung up on clothes, tree branches, car doors, etc

I have been to a few stores and have not seen any such "exposed" ignition systems like the one if the photo. In fact, even finding "traditional" BP rifles is proving to be harder than I thought. Bass Pro Shops, for example, had ONE of about 10.

I guess the bottom line is that I am looking for the best first rifle... lots of bang for the buck. I have read other threads on this subject, but none that I saw addressed these two types of open ignitions (pros and cons).

We CAN use percussion caps and musket caps and I think I like this idea over taking a lot of time to ensure my flint striker is bomb-proof.

Let me boil this down to my thoughts/needs (AGAIN: newbie!!)

I like the "caps" idea over flint-lock (cannot use 209)
I like the "in-line" concept but again, must be "open" style. Open to feedback here!
I think I prefer a longer rifle over a shorter one? Antelope are spooky!
I do plan on shooting PRBs, so 1-66 twist? I plan to hunt mostly and I keep reading that they are the best "all-around" ammo. I will target-shoot for practice, but don't see any benefit to getting into conical or other fancy bullets (I love the idea of making my own RBs some-day).

I will only buy a .50 cal as I also drew a no-brainer doe hunt as well as a late cow-elk tag. I might try to use the smoke-pole for all three hunts (Idaho requires .50 for elk). I am a meat hunter this year.

OK, enough for now!!

Thoughts PLEASE??? (if you are still reading, I am amazed!!

 

[Drago]

For a first percussion I like the Lyman Great Plains rifle. My 50 is a excellent rifle, but you may want to consider a 54. It is a great rifle to get you hooked for the price. Sometimes they come up used. If you can afford more you can find lots of choices of nice hand built at good prices. Personally I think you will love a flintlock if you give them a go. I have quite a few cap locks that I pass over for the flint cause I enjoy it more.

 

[jethro224]

Welcome to the forum. :hatsoff: I'm glad you are enjoying it so far and hope you continue to visit. Our members have a vast amount of knowledge and experience to share.

First let me mention that we are a traditional only forum and do not discuss modern inline muzzleloaders. It's in the rules.
That 2nd gun is one variation of the modern concept.

For a reasonably priced traditional muzzleloader that would meet your requirements you can't go wrong with a Lyman Great Plains Rifle. They come with a 1:60 twist which is very good for patched round ball shooting. They are well built and reliable and very accurate. Available in .50 or .54 caliber.
For a little more oomph at longer distances (still not "long range"), and at larger game such as elk, I would recommend the .54 caliber.
The GPR is a plains style rifle with a 32 inch barrel.

For a longrifle style gun you might look at some of the offerings by Pedersoli.

With just a bit of care the exposed hammer should not be an issue. Be careful around car doors. You can get in the habit of covering the lock with your hand when sneaking thru heavy brush.
The hammer has a half-cock position which serves as a sort of safety tho traditional sidelocks do not have a modern safety like you may be used to.

Check some of the online stores such as MidSouth Shooters Supply, Dixie Gunworks, and many others if you can't find anything locally available. Muzzleloaders can be shipped right to your door in most cases.
Also take a look at the classifieds right here on the forum.

For a first muzzleloader a percussion gun is probably the best choice. That said, I love my flintlocks. You can always get a flintlock later, after you have discovered how much fun blackpowder shooting can be.

One more thing, if you can find real blackpowder try it. Bass Pro has it in the back room not out in the open. Ask for it!
Don't believe all the magazine ads. Blackpowder cleans up easy with water and won't corrode your gun as long as you clean it after you shoot it. It also works better than any sub I have tried due to the lower ignition temp required.
:2
There are those who will disagree...

 

[Spikebuck]

Congratulations on your decision to take up traditional muzzleloading. I'm thrilled to see Idaho promoting more traditional firearms.

The pictures are great to add clarity to what is allowed or not. Do NOT worry about what you call an "exposed hammer." I've never gotten the hammer on a traditional gun caught on anything.

You said you like the inline concept, but don't believe it if someone says that traditional non-inlines don't fire or frequently misfire. Properly cared for you will not have misfire issues. There may be the occasional one, but it's rare if you take care of your fire channel to be sure it doesn't get plugged and on a flinter be sure your flint is sharp and properly set.

In fact...I laughed at one of my hunting partners last year. On the night before season I was preparing my Hawken caplock ensuring the gun was ready. I asked him if he was going to prep his inline and was promptly told that it would shoot fine and didn't need any prep like my "old timey" gun did. Next day I came back with a big-fat doe that dropped in it's tracks from the .54 caliber Hawken and he came back with a sad tale of how his inline misfired! Turned out some part had loosened up. This just proved that one must take proper care of one's firearm no matter what kind it is.

Good Luck!

 

[AZbpBurner]

Ever gouge yourself in the nose while eating with your fork, or poke yourself in the eye using your knife? If so, an exposed hammer may be problematic.

Realistically, if you're even marginally aware of your surroundings, you shouldn't have any concern over hammer snags.

.50 cal is a good choice, but don't turn down a good .54 offer if one presents itself'. I have a .50 flint GPR, and a .54 cal Cabelas Hawken. The flint gives me a little better reach beyond 100 yards, but the .54 is incredibly accurate.

Take a look around in the Classified Ads section of this forum & you'll find a good selection to choose from at irresistible prices. With either .50 0r .54 you won't be undergunned. As others have mentioned, you may want to start out with a percussion model. Eventually, you'll develop a desire for flint that will demand to be addressed - the GPR or one of the many Hawkens are a great place to start.

 

[Short Arm]

kwl, Welcome to the forum. Where in Idaho are you ? I'm in the panhandle area.(CDL)Any 50-54 cal will work here.Look around in the Classified here and local pawn shops.

 

I have been shooting traditional muzzleloaders for just over forty-five years now. I started with a caplock. Six years later, I used my final check from the Air Force to buy a hand-built flintlock when I stopped at Dixie Gun works on the way home. Over the years I’ve had, shot, and hunted with so many different muzzleloaders I would be hard pressed to remember them all. One thing I don’t remember ever doing is snagging the hammer (on percussion) or cock (on flint) on anything. Not once. It’s a non-issue. If you think about it, most modern bolt-actions stick out far enough to snag on things as well. If you put glass on ”˜em - and just about everybody does - they stick out a LOT more than the hammer or cock on a traditional muzzleloader.
A good friend did real well on antelope on multiple trips using a plains style rifle. It was a custom build, but the Great Plains Rifle others have mentioned would have similar capabilities. As others have already said, ”˜twer me, I’d get a .54.
There are limitations to black powder and round balls, especially for those who have spent a lifetime around high-power centefires. Don’t fall into the trap of thinking you can get 30/06 performance out of a traditional muzzleloader by shooting excessive powder charges and you should do fine.

Down the road, you might even fall of the cliff and the end of the slippery slope and start shooting flintlocks.

 

[kwlskeeter]

Wow, thanks for the quick responses and great info everyone!

Sorry about the slip in the discussion of the inline, I guess because Idaho allows them but with "open" igntions, I thought it was still an appropriate question, but the feedback seems unanimous that the hammer is a non-issue! NO, by the way, I don't usually stab myself in the nose while eating, but thanks for the chuckle!!

I do most of my hunting, in response to AZbpburner, in southern Idaho, actually on the edge of Nevada. That is where my deer and pronghorn tag are. I probably wasn't clear that my deer and elk tag are "any weapon", but for sure will use the .54 for the deer, and have it in the truck for the elk hunt... but that hunt could involve some long shooting.

So again, THANKS a ton and I am glad I asked! Seem like a .54 great-plains (or plains style) in percussion is a good starter rifle. I had already decided to track down some true black-powder.

I am really looking forward to the challenge of getting closer to my game and a return to my "roots". I had numerous ancestors fight in the war against the British to earn our country's freedom, so this will be a cool step back in time for me!!

 

[Little Wattsy]

Having made the journey I have settled on a .54 side-lock - cap-lock. Its accurate to 100 yards plus and has taken deer, elk, and buffalo. I like to pour my own round balls to hunt with and the gun works flawlessly. The Lyman GPR mentioned earlier is a GREAT option. You wont regret it!!

 

[cynthialee]

I have nothing to offer other than a welcome to the forum.


You should do well with any of the rifles recommended.