idea for a product

[mattybock]

I figure that if I can make the lock pasts through wet sand casting, and out of iron, that I can make about 10 parts in one batch.
The basic lock has 15 parts by my reckoning.

A barrel can be made with a lathe, a deep bore drill and a reamer. So far I figure they can only be made one at a time from bar stock steel.

The stocks can be made and inletted 5 at a time with a heavy duty band saw, a suitable blanchard lathe and inletting machine.

For the doubters, consider how much you are paying for a gun, perhaps $600 or more.

How much of that is pure profit?

The materials are cheap enough, but desire for profit is expensive for all parties.

Seems that most people who wish to get into blackpowder shooting are not restricted by the lack of desire, but by the lack of money.
My first rifle, of any time, was an old bolt action russian mosin nagant. It was $80 a number of years back.
I wanted a double barrel german made elephant rifle, but that was a few more pennies than I had.
Seems that the low end muzzeloaders are about $250, along the lines of a traditions hawken kit.
My first muzzleloader was one of these and I regret buying it.
It had a weird barrel twist, flimsy sights, poorly inletted stock and non-historic lines.
I see no reason why any one of us with the drive and know-how about tools and tool making couldn't make a simplistic, good quality musket, for a very low price - so that everyone could get into the hobby if they wished.
Maybe it's because we've seen prices so high, higher than they need to be, for so long, that we expect these prices.
Well, do rarely get what you pay for in life. And If I've learned anything, You normally pay too much for everything.

 

[Bill Hall]

Ah, youthful exuberance, I kinda remember that. :wink:

Hey, I say go for it. Even on the odd chance that it doesn't work out, you can use your experience for a future endeavour. We learn by our failures. :thumbsup: Bill

 

[Rifleman1776]

The stocks can be made and inletted 5 at a time with a heavy duty band saw, a suitable blanchard lathe and inletting machine.

As one who makes things in a wood working shop and tries to earn a few dollars that way, I understand costs before anything is even sold.Consider up front expense to purchase the machines. Then amortization from wear and tear, electric, etc. Again, as one who bought a duplicating machine then later sold at a big loss, I know what time is involved just shaping a stock. That is why I gave it up, time alone was sometimes more than I could charge a customer.
Cheap and good in this game can't be done.

 

Now answer a second time, but with this in mind - the kit (lock, stock, barrel, rod, single trigger) is only 50 dollars.

I would say that anyone who knows anything about the real world would not take this seriously. Respectfully, you are obviously making this up as you go, with little or no experience to draw on. IMO

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

If anyone manages to produce said hypothetical kit for $80, I'll buy it. Don't think that it could be offered at that price anymore but I would buy one

 

[mattybock]

is there any reason why the blanchard lathe cannot be made by any machinist who knows the in and outs of it?
No need to spend money on a tool if it can be made by one's self.

 

[mattybock]

yes, that's why it's called hypothetical.

 

[ChrisHarris]

Mattybock,

Don't let these grumpy old farts get to ya. Most of them are just angry and frustrated with their lives and it's easy to beat up a young kid from behind their keyboards. This forum is no different than most other internet forums. It has it's bullies. It has the 'superior' attitudes. And EVERY ONE of them is smarter than YOU. :rotf: Don't take it personal. It's just part of the disease that is ruining our society.

If you want to make a rifle, then do it.

If you can manage to make a beginners rifle for a decent price and you can repeat the process and go into business selling cheap muzzleloaders, then do it.

Don't let a bunch of grumpy old men kill your dreams or influence your decisions. :thumbsup:

 

[mattybock]

I have a thick hide. :wink:

In any case, I have the information I need, thanks to at least 80% of the folks here.
Next step, building the tools to make the ACME starter musket kit (for lack of a better name), for maybe 85 bucks.

 

[Adui]

Short answer: Assuming I could see the parts first, Id pay $80 to $100 for that kit. Assuming the warranty is also willing to refund on an unassembled kit if i didn't like what I got in the mail I'd also mail order it and inspect the parts before doing anything with it.

I paid $75 in 1988 for a CVA kit to build an 1861 Navy Colt. The only problem I have with the gun was my doing. For the price it was an awesome kit back then.
I just wished you could buy a kit at a decent price now, but what I've seen fits the "greedy manufacturers" description now. If I can buy an entry level gun assembled and ready for $300 why shou8ld I pay $400 for a kit?? Why does the kit cost more than the completed gun, or even the same price? The maker is simply looking for extra profit by avoiding the assembly stage.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I gotta ask the obvious. Have you ever actually made anything before?

 

[mattybock]

In wood only so far, no metal yet.
I made a few articles of furniture, and tinkered with a project clock in my spare time.
Restored a good many antique guns and did some minor gunsmithing for friends (repairs, never actually made parts)
Metal work is new to me, so this will be an experience. I look forward to it.

 

[mattybock]

that's the sum of the matter with business as it is.
Was this kit a spanish or italian one, and if it were to be had at the same price, would you seek out an American version?

 

[Bill Hall]

Like I said, go for it. You can't win by listening to all the reasons why an idea won't work, though I'm afraid all those reasons are correct :haha: . You win by trying, failing, and then trying again. With each failure, you gain knowledge and experience that will head you in the right direction. This is how all successful businesses eventually get off the ground. Just don't keep repeating those failures, learn from them.

And yes, being thick skinned really helps out. :thumbsup: Good luck. Bill

 

[Mike Brooks]

In wood only so far, no metal yet.
I made a few articles of furniture, and tinkered with a project clock in my spare time.
Restored a good many antique guns and did some minor gunsmithing for friends (repairs, never actually made parts)
Metal work is new to me, so this will be an experience. I look forward to it.

Well, coming from a guy that actually does this sort of thing for a living I can tell you you have a rude awakening to reality just around the corner. :haha:

 

[necchi]

a rude awakening to reality just around the corner. :haha:

That's just what I thought when he mentioned lock parts from sand cast.

But a guy's gotta dream,,

 

[Adui]

its the steel frame Italian version, and yes if it could be had American made for an equivalent price in today's dollars Id pay it. I'm guessing the equivalent is roughly $125 to $150. Like I said, my biggest gripe is that all the kits Ive seen are priced no more than $10 below the cost of the finished product from the same manufacturer. I want a kit because it is cool to build, but I'm a hobbyist. I want to shoot. If I'm only saving $10 I'm going to buy the finished product and enjoy a level of quality look that I probably cannot duplicate with my feeble skills.

 

[Dave K]

Uhhh, what do you do when you get the munchies? :rotf: There are many things you can do to save money, but even steel costs money. You just can't find everything and turn it into what you need. So you make your own castings. Where did the metal come from for the pouring? Where did the fuel come from to heat the metal? Where did the wood come from? What about the tools to cut the wood? Do you have beavers for your tree felling? Do you have elves to work the forge and bellows? Do you feed them? I am not angry or anything of that sort. Never had the munchies either. Life just isn't free. I will walk out on the limb and tell you I will buy one. Send me a video of YOU shooting it and I will send funds in gold dust, truffles,ginseng,fresh fish, mushrooms, what ever is in season. Sorry, just funnin' with you.

 

[BrownBear]

Like I said, I'll be delighted to buy it 3 or 4 years after model release. Get it out this year, and I'll commit myself in 2016.

 

[tg]

I have been in this game long enough to know what things cost and what it takes to make parts, good luck if you try this but I suspect the end result will not be as you hope or there would be a lot of $80 dollar gun kits around now. your best bet would be to aquire vast amounts of materials and send them to India and have them made up there then shipped back for sale here. This way you will allready have the very high quality reputaton of the Indian guns at your beck and call to launch the new line of guns.Now giving away a free bong with each parts set may increase sales and provide a plethora of very happy customers. Good luck my friend I truely hope it works for you and meets the expectations of those who get envolved on the purchasing end.
Advertising, interest, labor over burden, insurance, other variable and fixed costs may sink some ships before they leave the drydock but such ideas are what built this country so who knows.BTW I would by one if it was PC/HC, and identifiable as a particular type of gun from a particular time period and did not have a barrel made of pipe and was 48" long, for just a piece of wood and a piece of pipe and lock that kind of looks like a musket...no, one really needs a proto type for folks to see to get any real feel for any market there may be for any new gun.