Identifying orig. smoothie!

[Wehrmacht]

I talked at length today with David Dodds about this piece. He is far more knowledgable than I am about such matters, and I wanted his opinion.

He thinks the rifle has definate Appalachian traits and could be a Western North Carolina or upper East Tennessee piece. I don't see it myself, but it's hard to tell much without handling it or at least having several photos. He also made an interesting comment saying that it's entirely possible that the piece entered life as a caplock and was never converted from flint. A few good photos of the lock moitise area especially from the top should clear this up.

I'm not prepared to raise any point about it being something modern and just buggered up with a lock change. Kirrmeister knows what he has, I'm sure.

 

[Okwaho]

The pics just don't show enough to tell me very much. I don't see the gun being East Tennessee but Western North Carolina and Southwest Virginia are possibilities.As to its age I wouldn't even venture a guess without a lot more info and better pics especially the other side,guard,butt piece,toe plate, tang,and caliber.That long buttstock is strange though.
Tom Patton

 

[PreglerD]

Hi Forster and Okwaho, thanks for your replies. i will make some more pics from details of the gun and show them to you.

Kirrmeister

 

[PreglerD]

The caliber is a .50 smoothbore. .495 RB's with 0,5mm patches bring good accuracy up to 50 meters.
The other side is not very interesting. The lock is only fixed with one simple screw. I think the rifle had another lock before, because the perc. lock doesn't really fit the mortise and the it is an easy drumm and nipple conversion.

 

[54ball]

Hello,
It looks a little like a North Carolina rifle. Look up Gillespie Gun Works and scroll through the photos to see examples of originals made by the Gillespie family. Your gun shares a few traits.
The orignal lock mortice looks to be a short tailed lock like a later Ketland, Durs Egg, or J. Bailes. These type locks seem to be common on Southern rifles from 1800-1850. 1810-20s being the most common time for the short tailed lock. Later examples mostly have rounded locks.
It looks like the center of the barrel has a dove tail cut telling me this was originally a rifle. Even if it has no cheek piece it could still be a rifle because Southern rifles sometimes have no cheek piece, buttplate, patchbox or grease hole. It very well could have been originally flint, keep in mind flintlocks were being made in the American South well into the 20th century. In truth, flintlock production never really stopped.
From the photo I can say you do not have a Revolutionary or even 1812 era rifle.
What I think you do have is an 1860s-80s Appalacian restock and or rebarrel of an 1820s-30s era rifle. When the old lock on granpaws gun finally gave out it was replaced. This might have been done well into the 20th century.
It also could have been made from scratch in the late 1800s to early 1900s using and old unused lock.
If the gunstock does indeed date to the 1820s it is exceptional. It's an exceptional gun anyway whatever the age. :hatsoff:

 

[PreglerD]

Hello 54ball,

thanks for that detailed information. So that brings me a step forward. Because of the sight. The gun has a front and a rear sight. The barrel seems to be smooth, but could it be possible that the groves were rubbed away by many shooting? I don't think so because you don't see rests of any groove structure. The bore is really smooth. I think such a gun was much more versatile for a farmer because you could shoot both shot and ball.

I had now ordered a lock with a oversize lock plate. My gunsmith will fit it in, so i have a flinter again.

Thanks for your reply again.

Greetings from Germany

Kirrmeister

 

[Wehrmacht]

54RB,

Excellent thoughts! The stock profile does have some Gillespie characteristics except for the butt which is usually deeply cut on about all of the Gillespies that I've seen. I wonder if this piece has a lollypop tang? (Kirrmeister, more photos please!).

You are correct about muzzleloading pieces being used and made in the Southern Mountains into the 1900's. My home is in the mountains of North Georgia right on the North Carolina line. John and James Gillespie lived in my home county, and I've seen a number of original Gillespies by several of the Clan. My Grandad,by whom I was reared, used a small caliber caplock squirrel hunting even when I was a kid.

It's especially true that in the Southern Mountains guns were very often parts of more than one gun pieced togather. There is an old story around home about a young boy with a rifle claiming that it was used by his Great Grandpaw at Kings Mountain. It was a short barreled half stock caplock :haha: . His Grandad had converted it from flintlock to caplock, and his Dad had shortened the barrel and restocked it with a half stock. But it was the same ole rifle gun that his GGP had used at Kings Mountain :thumbsup: .