If you were starting from the beginning - again.

[Swamp Buck]

For you experienced builders, knowing what you know now - what advice would you give a new builder to avoid costly mistakes when starting out. What I'm trying to do is get ahead of the learning curve as much as possible.

Futhermore, as I read other forum posts, it seems many have built several muzzleloaders (from scratch or parts kits). How did you decide what to build first and so on.

Any thoughts on this matter would be appreciated.

 

[ffffg]

i was a cabinet maker for 23 years, built guns,bows, decoys, and almost anything imaginable from wood , and steel with modest metal working tools.. if i was going to make a project that i knew nothing about id get a piece of cheap wood and build it, than haveing experience building it id grab the high dollar materials after learning by MY mistakes.. you wont know your problems until its too late. the first is the hardest, but you have to get your feet wet to learn how to swim... i would say layout, meaning getting the barrel, tang, trigger, vent and lock all comming together in the correct possition, without any gaps between metal and wood.. the front lock screw can block the ramrod, the trigger could be too far forward in the trigger guard or too far back for that matter.. etc.. there are different types of triggers and locks that i am not familiar with, so you will need to get more specific on these types of questions, and you will get plenty of help here from those that know that type of firearm.. .. .. good luck dave..

 

[MikeChapin]

My first full build was a .36 flint long rifle. I had restocked a Mountain Rifle a few months before. It was as much work as a new build so I thought I was ready.

The rifle went together fine. It was slow work and I refered to the books before putting in each piece. It came out so-so. The rifle was accurate when the cheap lock would go off. The more I looked at it the more I saw I did the normal newbie mistake. I left too much wood on the stock and didn't do enough molding around the lock.

Three years later I put it on the bench to fix the mistakes and put in a decent lock. That worked out well. When it was on the bench I had a motorhome fire that took out most of my other rifles.

I still have the rifle and it still shoots dead on. It has a plain maple stock and the furnature is german silver. It's a nice slim rifle with a lot of sentimental value.

 

[rich pierce]

1) I'd take a class if I could. Don't depend solely on books no matter how good a learner you are. Someone can show you much better than you can learn from a book. Keep in mind that no one builder has all the answers or the only way something can be done, and books, articles, and websites are not all "correct" either.

2) I'd buy an original to study. That sounds pricey but it's not as bad as you might think. One can still find halfstock percussion shotguns and rifles for $300-$500. Regardless of style, there are certain rules and lines that can be learned from any quality original.

3) I'd build a couple of low-end kits where everything is about 90% done. This will teach you the basics of fit and finish.

4) Then scratch-build from a blank from then on out. I have no use for pre-carved stocks which are neither fish nor fowl. One is totally constrained when using a pre-carved stock or a kit. You will learn 10x as much working from a blank. When you really get to building, you must practice. Few do this but it is essential to avoid making a mess of your first couple of guns. Get slabs of maple or walnut and practice inletting a buttplate. A tang. A patchbox. A rear ramrod pipe. Practice carving. Get some scrap brass and steel sheet and practice drawing and engraving designs. Try different metal and wood finishes out on scrap materials.

5) Choose the following in degree of difficulty of obtaining an acceptable result (this will get me in trouble!):
A Northwest gun or any early trade level smoothbore or military gun is the easiest to get an acceptable fit and finish as many were made to low prices and many of these guns will lack certain refinements.

Plain longrifle or fowler no carving- next easiest.

Plain trade level halfstock rifle/shotgun without hooked breech, etc (Not a Hawken or Dimick or Vincent)- moderate

Decorated longrifle or fowler- hard

Tennessee longrifle- hard to very hard with long tang, etc. So plain the lines have to carry it.

Hawken- the hardest. Technically difficult and the lines are subtle and easy to miss.

5) Get critiqued. I have seen guys who have built at least 10 guns from scratch who still make obvious errors in shaping the wrist, or lock panels, or forearm, shaping the ramrod groove and fitting the nosecap, etc. Fit and finish are excellent but the lines are wrong. Of course if they had an original to study, even a 1860's gun, most of these problems would be avoided. It pays to suck it up, go to a show, and ask 2-3 builders to give you a 5 minute critique. Take notes!

 

[Swamp Buck]

Thanks, FFFFg/Mike2005/Rich, for your help.

I have several of the ML builders books and a ML building video and those help. The info on this forum is a great resource in filling in the "grey" areas on unanswered questions I have.

I have put together a Lyman GPR kit and Lyman GP Pistol kit. Those were fun and not hard to put together. They were my first experience into the world of black powder muzzleloaders. (Great fun to shoot).

Now I want to go to the next level and have something more challenging to build. I think the biggest hurdle will be convincing the better half. I'm sure all of us have heard the dreaded words "why do you need another gun"?

 

[pathfinderifh]

Just tell her"To match the beautiful new pair of shoes you just bought". Let me know how it turns out! :shocked2:
Seriously though,The next step I would recommend would be to get a good quality kit that's 90-95% inlet for you. That way the hard stuff is done and you can concentrate on the fine details and work on the finesse. It's hard to get good at the fine parts when the rest of your inletting looks like manure. I'm sure there's a lot of grey beards out there who like me wish we had the quality kits then that we have now. I'm starting to use more kits to build for customers now to cut down on the time I spend on the mundain parts and fancy them up a bit. I can also lower the price and give a nicer gun IMHO :thumbsup:

 

[Leonredbeard]

SB,
I must be one blessed dude! My wife knows how little I do for myself, so when I decide to build another gun she approves. It helps keep me sane, which she likes. It also helped that back there in the nineties the hobby was paying for itself. I used the proceeds from two guns to put braces on two kids teeth.
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

[Zonie]

Tell her it isn't just another gun, it's a long term project that will keep you busy and out of trouble.
This isn't really an exaggeration.
Where the kits you assembled went together in a week or two, one of the advanced "box of parts" will take, in my opinion, at least 150 hours of your time. I know my first guns took over 200 hours each because I wasn't in a hurry and I didn't want to frinkle up $160 worth of wood by making the wrong cuts.

Even if the lock and trigger mortice, the barrel channel and ramrod hole and even the buttplate are roughed in, the final fitting takes time.

Locating the screw holes, drilling and tapping the threads, inletting the trigger guard and patch box (if it has one) all take time.

If your wife recognizes even a small part of work envolved, she will see that this thing will keep you out of her hair for months.

I know when I am not building a gun, and I'm sitting in the TV room grumbling about the stupidity of the shows she's watching she can't hardly wait until I start another project. :grin:

 

[dlemaster]

Zonie
Sounds like my wife and I.
I went through a down time a little while back, no motivation and no interest to do any gun work. I like to drove my wife crazy sitting around trying to watch TV but couldn't stand anything that was on, so I complained. But I got all that fixed, everthing is back to normal and even though I spend a lot of time in the shop the wife says she's just glad to have her husband back.
All is well.

Regards, Dave

 

[reddogge]

built guns,bows, decoys

You quickly learn to live with your very imperfect early efforts. I still have my first scratch gun, a deadly shooter, but wish I could change some things.

And decoys. I never threw a head or body away. I used them all. The ducks didn't care but some of the early ones are a little embarrassing to pull out in front of your buddies. I used to find myself explaining that to them but they didn't seem to care either.

Fortunately I never made bows, just shot them.

 

[Zonie]

"...are a little embarrassing to pull out in front of your buddies..."
________________________________


Well reddogge, If they didn't have that stupid grin on their faces no one would have noticed. :grin: :grin:

Just kidding. Hope you have a sense of humor.

Jim

 

[ol vern]

Every time I start a new rifle my dear wife tells me"that is just what you need another damn gun"
:rotf:

 

[Zonie]

The real trouble starts when your wife suggests (very strongly) that you should sell some of the guns you've made.

 

[reddogge]

Just kidding. Hope you have a sense of humor

Zonie,
Yes I do and long ago realized I wasn't a Lem or Steve Ward but had some success carving decoys. But those early reject heads are hideous like my experimental "snuggler head" which looked like a duck born with 1/2 a head. :rotf:

 

[Slowpoke]

Build a pistol from a kit.

SP

 

[bamamarine]

I agree with the idea of taking a class. I took a carving class last year and it was worth the time and money. Are classes listed someplace? Can I go somplace and see what classes are being offered where and when?

 

[madstone]

As I earn my daily bread with all those damned old guns I have found it best to reply meekly " Yes, dear, but this gun's sleek, almost sexy lines remind me of your svelt form"! Bitter experience has taught me to become adept at smuggling them past the dear wife of all these years. Pretty soon they will all look the same. The guns, not the wives! :rotf: