Ignition Problems – No I idea what I am doing!!! Please help!

[SDSmlf]

If it sparks, don't worry about it. You have a cheap lock, no use putting lipstick on a pig

Probably no worse than 75% of the production locks out there that folks shoot every day. Comes down to a sharp flint, a properly hardened frizzen and a clear open path or fire channel from pan to the main charge. It’s not that difficult. And the most expensive lock in the world will not overcome a dull flint or a blocked fire channel.

 

[Trev]

a clear open path or fire channel from pan to the main charge.

I'm not a flinter, so does a open fire channel mean that you don't want any powder in the touch hole? it sticks in my mind that at point trying to poke some powder grains into the vent was mentioned?

 

[waksupi]

Probably no worse than 75% of the production locks out there that folks shoot every day. Comes down to a sharp flint, a properly hardened frizzen and a clear open path or fire channel from pan to the main charge. It’s not that difficult. And the most expensive lock in the world will not overcome a dull flint or a blocked fire channel.

They overcome poor geometry.

 

[SDSmlf]

They overcome poor geometry.

Expense locks can also come with poor geometry and other problems. One thing the high dollar locks do is create guns at a price point a little out reach for quite a few people trying to get into the hobby.

The guy asked for help with his gun and you tell him his lock is junk. What kind of vehicle do you and your family members drive?

 

[snakebit]

There's enough guys who own and shoot (and shoot well) these kinds of rifles. I personally know a few who are lights out shooters as some say these "lesser rifles". The OP is getting his feet wet. Like @SDSmlf said, he's asking for help, not opinions on his rifle. HIS rifle. Let's hold him up and get him rolling. When he's comfortable with it, he then may or may ask for opinions on another purchase. As we all know, no one can own just one

 

[bldtrailer]

it's more the man holding the gun than the gun and it's price. a good shooter can get great groups with the right load

the above trad Kentucky at 100 yrds with the same kind of lock after some range time and lock tweaking sighting in 2 to the right moved sights 3 down the middle with a flitch 65 sw3f #40 drill cloth tallow lube 490 self-molded
it takes range time change only one thing at a time record results make sure it's repeatable

 

[simonbeans]

Here is another suggestion that MIGHT help ignition. I try to increase the surface area of the priming in the pan by enlarging the size of the pan.

I use a Dremmel grinder stone and then a drum sanding bit.

I think it helps ignition as sparks have more surface to land.

 

[waksupi]

Have you read my posts? Do you have anything to offer that might help solve any of the problems with my spark?

I was hoping to get help, telling me what not to do does not help me solve problems, thanks.

I am helping you. I've probably been building rifles longer than you have been alive. If you don't want told how to NOT break your lock, fine.

 

[waksupi]

Expense locks can also come with poor geometry and other problems. One thing the high dollar locks do is create guns at a price point a little out reach for quite a few people trying to get into the hobby.

The guy asked for help with his gun and you tell him his lock is junk. What kind of vehicle do you and your family members drive?

I told him the truth, it will not perform like a well designed lock. However, by cutting his teeth on this one, he will learn about what does and doesn't work with a lock.

FYI, I drive a Lexus and a Dodge Ram, but started out with a '58 Ford, knowing full well there were better things to drive.

 

[bldtrailer]

 

[bldtrailer]

 

[bldtrailer]

 

[SDSmlf]

I told him the truth, it will not perform like a well designed lock. However, by cutting his teeth on this one, he will learn about what does and doesn't work with a lock.

FYI, I drive a Lexus and a Dodge Ram, but started out with a '58 Ford, knowing full well there were better things to drive.

Glad you like the truth, as it makes things simpler. I am rather disappointed in your vehicle choices, as I expected better. In my professional career in automotive component and system manufacturing, I spent untold hours on both scheduled and unscheduled scheduled calls and in person visits with most all of the major automotive manufacturers.

Generally Lexus was notorious for drivetrain issues, particularly in any vehicle with automatic transmissions, along with water leaks into the interior, timing chain cover oil leaks, etc.

Dodge Ram issues are too many to get them all, though the highway ‘death wobble’ was one of my favorites. But it was also hard to ignore the transmission leaks, TCMs giving up the ghost and rough shifting to name few. No need to mention the timing chain slipping, coolant and oil cooler leaks and the eTorque engine stalling. The least common denominator for these and other manufacturers was their goal to get through the warranty period so the required expensive repairs would be the responsibility of the current vehicle owner.

Basically junk vehicles, but I guess you are still learning there might be better things to drive… curious what you will purchase next.

Now let’s go back to assisting the OP solving their issues with their their gun, but maybe stopping short of suggesting getting a different gun. I never found true gunsmiths gun builders to align with the it’s junk so toss it and replace it crowd. They make things work.

 

[kyron4]

Do not use lead to hold the flint, unless you want to break lock internals. You are already working with a cheap lock, no use to abuse it. Makers of quality locks won't honor a warranty if you use lead on their locks.

Those telling you to remove the clean out screw are full of beans. Those were never intended to be removed, they were a manufacturing short cut.

I agree leather should be used instead of lead, but as far as "cheap" locks and breaking internals, that may be overstated. With all the CVA and Traditions guns owned and used, I see very few if any posts here about broken or worn out locks.

He has a flintlock so there is no clean out screw, but it does have a removable touch hole liner. With a patent breach it is a good idea to remove the liner to properly clean/dry the small chamber that the patch and jag can't get to. A little anti seize on the threads and just snugged tight , and you're good to go. Far more issues with stuck and seized nipples and liners than worn out threads.

 

[kyron4]

On topic, the CVA/Traditions locks have a somewhat wide and shallow pan. I find I get the best/fastest ignition when I cover the bottom of the pan with powder. Not humped up , just below the top edges of the pan and the whole width of the bottom of the pan. It's only about 3 grains, but looks like more due to the shallow pan depth. Due to the patent breach the main charge is further from the pan than a more traditional set up.

 

[Juniata]

Where are you located?

I'm not much invested in typing out a sloution but of your near central PA I'd be willing to get together and we can go over things

 

[Grenadier1758]

On topic, the CVA/Traditions locks have a somewhat wide and shallow pan. I find I get the best/fastest ignition when I cover the bottom of the pan with powder. Not humped up , just below the top edges of the pan and the whole width of the bottom of the pan. It's only about 3 grains, but looks like more due to the shallow pan depth. Due to the patent breach the main charge is further from the pan than a more traditional set up.

Kyron4 has a point. The pan on @Bumpy Rhodes' rifle could be deepened a bit to get a little more powder near the touch hole, but not to cover it. The most heat is generated at the surface of the burning material. Having more heat near the touch hole as the powder burns down will aid ignition. The tests conducted by Larry Pletcher show that pan powder near but not covering the touch hole gives the most reliable ignition. The old rule of thumb of banking the powder away from the touch hole to prevent the so-called fuse effect was okay but the sides of the pan are not banked to direct the heat towards the touch hole. The heat from the flash radiates in a more or less uniform pattern. And, yes, one can push a few grains (in this case actually grains not weight) of fine pan powder through the internally relieved touch hole, but not enough powder to make a fuse to slow the burn can improve ignition. I have poked pan powder through the touch hole and picked the touch hole to clear the flash channel for more consistent ignition.

 

[Snooterpup]

Hi and welcome.
One important hint:
Do not use a brush to clean the bore on a gun with a patent/chambered breech. If a person gets a brush stuck in a patent/chambered breech a trip to a gunsmith will most likely be necessary to unbreech the barrel to remove the stuck brush.
For more information about this please PM me.
Good luck and enjoy your flintlock.

 

[sturmkatze]

Do not use lead to hold the flint, unless you want to break lock internals. You are already working with a cheap lock, no use to abuse it. Makers of quality locks won't honor a warranty if you use lead on their locks.

Those telling you to remove the clean out screw are full of beans. Those were never intended to be removed, they were a manufacturing short cut.

It’s not a “clean out screw” on a flintlock — It’s a vent. Some aren’t meant to remove — others are.

As to leather or lead, I think it’s a personal choice. I use lead on the musket.

 

[sturmkatze]

Have you read my posts? Do you have anything to offer that might help solve any of the problems with my spark?

I was hoping to get help, telling me what not to do does not help me solve problems, thanks.

@Bumpy Rhodes I’d lock the thread or ask an admin to. You will get an increasing level of moonbat suggestions. Next they’ll tell you: “you need to buy you a CUSTOM RIFLE ta fix yer problems.”

Do not put too much powder in the pan — Billy Bobs will tell you to fill the pan — don’t. Are you still having all these problems or haven’t had time to do shooting? Where are you at? Maybe there’s a BP gun shop close by??