Patch is wet but not dripping. 3f.
Ignition Problems – No I idea what I am doing!!! Please help!
- Thread starter Bumpy Rhodes
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Banjoman
Hillbilly
What brand powder?
UPDATE:
After a good scrubbing yesterday and overnight dry by the woodstove, I got 2 good shots before the FNF (Flash No Fire) reared it's ugly head. I picked the touchhole, tapped and reprimed 3 times, FNF. On the 4th try I buried the touchhole in primer and it fired.
4th shot, after dropping the charge I tapped the barrel with a piece of wood (previously I tapped by hand), fast light taps, and again FNF. I then buried the touchhole in primer and it fired.
This is what seems to work: Clean touchhole then leave the pick in the hole. Drop the charge and tap with wood. Seat ball, run the pick in and out a couple times, then bury the touchhole. Every time I did that, it fired.
I hate to say this is the solution since, from what I understand, I should not bury the touchhole, but it seems to be reliable.
After a good scrubbing yesterday and overnight dry by the woodstove, I got 2 good shots before the FNF (Flash No Fire) reared it's ugly head. I picked the touchhole, tapped and reprimed 3 times, FNF. On the 4th try I buried the touchhole in primer and it fired.
4th shot, after dropping the charge I tapped the barrel with a piece of wood (previously I tapped by hand), fast light taps, and again FNF. I then buried the touchhole in primer and it fired.
This is what seems to work: Clean touchhole then leave the pick in the hole. Drop the charge and tap with wood. Seat ball, run the pick in and out a couple times, then bury the touchhole. Every time I did that, it fired.
I hate to say this is the solution since, from what I understand, I should not bury the touchhole, but it seems to be reliable.
Schuetzen.
Banjoman
Hillbilly
Do what works. That might just be what it takes for yours. When you figure out a method that works every time, stick with it. Seems like each one of mine likes something a little different.
That’s part of the fun of traditional muzzleloading!
I went out and fired 4 more rounds, all successful, touchhole buried. After 14rds I stopped because the bore seemed fouled about 6" in, and very hard to push the ball past. Last time I had to drop in an alum rod and tap it. The ball pushed fine the rest of the way until I hit a little more fouling maybe 1-2" from the charge.
Should I be running a patch or brush after 10rds or so to clear fouling?
Should I be running a patch or brush after 10rds or so to clear fouling?
Yeah, I was getting a bit discouraged for a while!Do what works. That might just be what it takes for yours. When you figure out a method that works every time, stick with it. Seems like each one of mine likes something a little different.
That’s part of the fun of traditional muzzleloading!
Banjoman
Hillbilly
It’s okay to run a damp (not dripping wet) cleaning patch down after several shots if you want. There are folks on here and other forums say they can shoot all day without swabbing the bore. Then there others who swab after every shot and some like me who swab after a few shots. No right or wrong way really.
Here’s a little trick I learned for rifled bores. I like to use a fiberglass rod with a cleaning jag (of what caliber the gun is) as a range rod. On maybe the tenth or twelfth shot I’ll load everything same as usual but with a damp patch on the jag so I’m loading and swabbing at the same time.
Here’s a little trick I learned for rifled bores. I like to use a fiberglass rod with a cleaning jag (of what caliber the gun is) as a range rod. On maybe the tenth or twelfth shot I’ll load everything same as usual but with a damp patch on the jag so I’m loading and swabbing at the same time.
Interesting side story. I am an accuracy fanatic, I don't care what it is, I want to document what it can do! After one fouling shot I shot the next 5 for a 50y group. Not bad, 1.7" but all vertical, I just thought I wasn't getting a good tangent on my 6:00 hold, maybe the light, my eyes, or the movement between sear-off and bang.
After looking closely, I realized the first shot was the highest, and the rest worked their way down, hmmm, maybe it's fouling.
I continued to shoot to test reliability and during one loading I opened my powder measure and the piston had completely unscrewed and was flopping around loose! I think the piston was becoming unscrewed as I was loading and dropping smaller and smaller charges! I tap the funnel of the measure against the muzzle after I pour to get all the flakes out, I bet this tapping was vibrating the piston causing it to unscrew! (It is now loctited!)
Now I have to wait until next time to test accuracy!
After looking closely, I realized the first shot was the highest, and the rest worked their way down, hmmm, maybe it's fouling.
I continued to shoot to test reliability and during one loading I opened my powder measure and the piston had completely unscrewed and was flopping around loose! I think the piston was becoming unscrewed as I was loading and dropping smaller and smaller charges! I tap the funnel of the measure against the muzzle after I pour to get all the flakes out, I bet this tapping was vibrating the piston causing it to unscrew! (It is now loctited!)
Now I have to wait until next time to test accuracy!
again, pure BS! Your thumb Will not hurt that. I’m sorry William-Robert, but I’ve been shooting these since I was like 15. I always use my thumb. I know it’s hard to believe, but they didn’t have plastic squeeze bottles of alkyhol on the frontier.
Do you leave the patch in the bore or does it come out with the jag? And just water damp?
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I use an alcohol cleaning patch every 5 shots or so, whenever I feel the ball start to go down too hard. I have a small plastic jar with a dozen or so that are damp not drenched, in my bag. The alcohol dries fast so it doesn’t impact the next powder load going down the barrel
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There is a great black powder shoot in vt every February. It’s called the southern Vermont biathlon but you don’t have to run it. Most don’t. It’s a good time and you meet good folks and see great rifles. They have a website with all the info if you’re interested.
So you run a soaked patch on a jag on an empty chamber? Do you run it through only once?
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Yes, I usually run it down once then flip the patch over and run it a second time
Again, you guys are tremendous help! So many finer points, this is waaay more complicated than I imagined! Remember, I have been competing for over 50y, and I am struggling to understand this new (for me) ancient process!
Banjoman
Hillbilly
The patch comes back out with the cleaning jag. Here’s the jag. I use it for cleaning with a patch or loading without a patch or in combination as I described above.
For loading:
For cleaning:
Or, for cleaning and loading at same time:
Or, if you don’t have a jag like that you can just push a damp wad down on top of the ball with your ramrod and leave it on top of the ball. It will come out when you fire the gun.
hey thanks for explaining and the photo.The breach plug should NOT be removed , and nis not meant to be removed. It is "cross pinned" by a threaded insert that the touch hole liner screws into. In theory you could drill out or otherwise extract the insert then remove the plug , but would be near impossible to line the plug perfectly with threaded hole up . Make sense ?
Here is another image of the patent breach, from a cap lock but same idea.
See how the drum threads through the barrel into the breach plug and acts as a cross pin . See the channel/hole ? This one appears to be around 1/4" (.250") , on this one, which I believe is from a Pedersoli. Most Traditions and CVA's have a much smaller hole.
Disclaimer: for information purposes only.
Here is an extreme option I would only recommend to someone with machining skills. The channel (center hole) in the patent breach on a friends barrel measured .177" or 4.5mm , very small and easily fouled and making powder flow difficult causing misfires. Using a 3' section of 3/8" steel rod I center drilled the end using a lathe starting with a 3/16" (.187") drill and secured it (press fit) also adding two set screws on the drill flats. I used a brass muzzle guard on the rod to center the rod and with a lot of cutting fluid and low speed carefully drilled the hole out to .187" .This is very hard steel a quality colbalt drill is needed. Then repeated the process going up in size .015" at a time stopping at 15/64" (.234"). This increased the diameter by .057" , not a lot but enough to allow better powder flow and less clogging from fouling and not enough to affect the wall thickness of the plug as to weaken the threads. We tested after this size and the issues all but went away so we left it at that. Again this is an extreme option left to an experienced machinist. You screw up and snap a drill and you're done, barrel is scrap metal.
I believe with the advice you've got from proper cleaning, vent picking, and loading that 95% of your problems should go away. This would be my advice as well.
Great job ! I have found with muzzleloader it's not a one size fits all, there are so many variables in designs. When I started with flint locks I was told to use very little prime powder and bank it away from the touch hole. I would get misfires and hang fires. After experimenting I found filling the bottom of the pan from just under the touch hole to the end of the pan I'd get fast consistent ignition.
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Now that you mention having to really bury the pan. I had a CVA Hawken that required that . That was one where I got rid I f the factory liner and put in a liner that allowed me to open the flash channel up. You gave to remember Traditions and CVA use the same barrel for both flint and percussion. They just tap them larger to accommodate the percussion drum and nipple
