Ignition Problems – No I idea what I am doing!!! Please help!

[Grenadier1758]

I put a wrench on the breech plug, it's not coming out easy so I'm just going to leave it.

Removed the barrel and gave the bore a good hot soapy mop, then put a soapy patch on a .30 brush and cleaned the chamber, then flushed lots of hot water both ways. I drilled out a 5mm screw that fits the hole for the touchhole screw so I can flush from the breech. Got couple small black chunks out, hopefully that is it.

View attachment 378613

Let me think about your touch hole liner being 5 mm. Most of the liners I am aware of are 1/4" which is close to 6mm. This would imply that the internal cone is much smaller than what I normally see. That means less powder is nest to the touch hole and pan. Now that you are getting reliable ignition when you fill the pan, I don't recommend that you replace the touch hole liner with a larger one. Anyone who can drill a clearance/flushing hole through a 5 mm (0.200" approx) screw should be able to replace the touch hole liner at some time in the future. Note that many reliable touch holes are simply a 1/16" to 5/64" hole drilled through the side of the barrel with no internal coning. Nice barrel flushing system. Now to get the barrel and all the channels dry so fouling isn't going to accumulate and block heat from the pan getting to the main charge.

If it's working then continue on. A build up of fouling should be raising the impact as pressure increases. Concentrate on keeping a consistent hold and keep aiming until the smoke clears.

 

[flconch53]

This is what a traditions touchhole liner looks like. The small shank limits the amount of room in the flash channel. They can be replaced by a 5/16 liner.

 

[Bumpy Rhodes]

This is what a traditions touchhole liner looks like. The small shank limits the amount of room in the flash channel. They can be replaced by a 5/16 liner.

That's what I have been calling the touchhole screw. I thought the liner is the non-removable piece that this screw threads into.

 

[Bumpy Rhodes]

Let me think about your touch hole liner being 5 mm. Most of the liners I am aware of are 1/4" which is close to 6mm. This would imply that the internal cone is much smaller than what I normally see. That means less powder is nest to the touch hole and pan. Now that you are getting reliable ignition when you fill the pan, I don't recommend that you replace the touch hole liner with a larger one. Anyone who can drill a clearance/flushing hole through a 5 mm (0.200" approx) screw should be able to replace the touch hole liner at some time in the future. Note that many reliable touch holes are simply a 1/16" to 5/64" hole drilled through the side of the barrel with no internal coning. Nice barrel flushing system. Now to get the barrel and all the channels dry so fouling isn't going to accumulate and block heat from the pan getting to the main charge.

If it's working then continue on. A build up of fouling should be raising the impact as pressure increases. Concentrate on keeping a consistent hold and keep aiming until the smoke clears.

The touchhole screw has a 1/16 hole and is back bored 3/32 dia, seems like a difficult path for a spark, especially when it fouls a bit.

I could drill and tap it to 1/4 but I am not planning to invest that much effort into this gun, at least not yet.

I understand follow-through. It's pretty hard to hit a 7" 10-ring on a SR target at 200y offhand unless you understand follow-through.

 

[Snooterpup]

again, pure BS! Your thumb Will not hurt that. I’m sorry William-Robert, but I’ve been shooting these since I was like 15. I always use my thumb. I know it’s hard to believe, but they didn’t have plastic squeeze bottles of alkyhol on the frontier.

Oooo, I have been properly chastised and am no longer worthy to contribute.
I also have been shooting these things since age 16 (now 70) so I bow to your superior knowledge. I believe wiping the frizzen and pan are beneficial particularly if in a high humidity situation where the pan and frizzen are soupy black. What will do a better job, your sweaty thumb or a patch?
I hope your denigration of my and others suggestions over the years gives your ego a much needed boost.
Thank you so very much,
William-Robert

 

[Grenadier1758]

The touchhole screw has a 1/16 hole and is back bored 3/32 dia, seems like a difficult path for a spark, especially when it fouls a bit.

I could drill and tap it to 1/4 but I am not planning to invest that much effort into this gun, at least not yet.

I understand follow-through. It's pretty hard to hit a 7" 10-ring on a SR target at 200y offhand unless you understand follow-through.

Do score some of those dental flossing brushes or the Harbor Freight air gun brushes that can reach through the touch hole and into the powder chamber. They will take enough of the fouling out of flash channel to prevent blockages. A pipe cleaner that can fit through a 1/16" touch hole can keep that flash channel dry. The 3/32" internal cone isn't much when compared to a White Lightening touch hole liner, but it can work as you have learned it need a lot of burning powder to get the heat from the pan to the powder charge.

Control the fouling and you will be able to continue to shoot. That rifle of yours is apparently one that doesn't want to let you do the pour powder, tap the breech, load the patched ball, prime the pan and shoot. You need the clear the flash channel with a brush and more powder than what is often recommended. Using a #50 (0.700") drill to enlarge the touch hole can be just enough to get satisfactory ignition.

Schuetzen 3F powder is a bit finer in grain size than GOEX so it is conceivable that it will fill the pan. Do use a pick to block the touch hole on loading. When the pan gets filled, the difference between charge quantity is not well controlled and that will result in more open groups.

 

[centershot]

STICKY!!! This is an awesome thread, please mods, post as a sticky!!!

 

[Bumpy Rhodes]

I found a new way to scrub the bore and wash the patent chamber without getting wet. I drilled through a 5mm screw, put on a nut and o-ring and screwed it into the breech, attached a tube running to a container of hot soapy water. I then ran a soapy mop up and down the bore and it pumps the soapy water back and forth through the chamber and barrel without getting everything wet!

 

[kyron4]

Now that you mention having to really bury the pan. I had a CVA Hawken that required that . That was one where I got rid I f the factory liner and put in a liner that allowed me to open the flash channel up. You gave to remember Traditions and CVA use the same barrel for both flint and percussion. They just tap them larger to accommodate the percussion drum and nipple

What liner did you use ?

 

[kyron4]

Oooo, I have been properly chastised and am no longer worthy to contribute.
I also have been shooting these things since age 16 (now 70) so I bow to your superior knowledge. I believe wiping the frizzen and pan are beneficial particularly if in a high humidity situation where the pan and frizzen are soupy black. What will do a better job, your sweaty thumb or a patch?
I hope your denigration of my and others suggestions over the years gives your ego a much needed boost.
Thank you so very much,
William-Robert

I use a damp alcohol patch to wipe the pan, flint, and frizzen in damp or humid conditions. Makes a big difference. For me whatever works, works. Right , wrong , or otherwise.

 

[SDSmlf]

I found a new way to scrub the bore and wash the patent chamber without getting wet. I drilled through a 5mm screw, put on a nut and o-ring and screwed it into the breech, attached a tube running to a container of hot soapy water. I then ran a soapy mop up and down the bore and it pumps the soapy water back and forth through the chamber and barrel without getting everything wet!

As mentioned earlier in this thread, this type of cleaning device set is available from TOW and other suppliers. Believe I’ve been using variations of it since the mid 1980’s or so. If you want to avoid making one yourself, try here. The CVA adapter is only $5. https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/66/1

Post in thread 'Ignition Problems – No I idea what I am doing!!! Please help!'
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/ignition-problems-–-no-i-idea-what-i-am-doing-please-help.190270/post-2792213

 

[flconch53]

What liner did you use ?

It was 5/16 I don't remember the brand name. I know it was coned inside. Probably from Dixie or Mountain State.

 

[sturmkatze]

Oooo, I have been properly chastised and am no longer worthy to contribute.
I also have been shooting these things since age 16 (now 70) so I bow to your superior knowledge. I believe wiping the frizzen and pan are beneficial particularly if in a high humidity situation where the pan and frizzen are soupy black. What will do a better job, your sweaty thumb or a patch?
I hope your denigration of my and others suggestions over the years gives your ego a much needed boost.
Thank you so very much,
William-Robert

Who are you to say? I’ll continue to just wipe it off with my thumb. Ugh. Billy bobs and bad advice. Hell, there was no one in my town with flintlocks. I read books. Never had these kinds of problems.

 

[snakebit]

Oooo, I have been properly chastised and am no longer worthy to contribute.
I also have been shooting these things since age 16 (now 70) so I bow to your superior knowledge. I believe wiping the frizzen and pan are beneficial particularly if in a high humidity situation where the pan and frizzen are soupy black. What will do a better job, your sweaty thumb or a patch?
I hope your denigration of my and others suggestions over the years gives your ego a much needed boost.
Thank you so very much,
William-Robert

I keep a clean rag hooked to my bag, I wipe the flint, pan, and frizzen for every shot. Just something built into my muscle memory.

 

[flconch53]

I keep a clean rag hooked to my bag, I wipe the flint, pan, and frizzen for every shot. Just something built into my muscle memory.

Down here you better plan on wiping the frizzen before you shoot. Especially in summer. I keep a strip of cloth on my shooting bag also but I can hardly say it is clean

 

[French Colonial]

The humidity in Southern IL can get oppressive during the dog days of summer, wiping with your thumb works just fine, but if I am in civilian clothes (Not reenacting) the wife would rather I did not wipe my thumb on my pants. I wear khaki colored Carhartts most of the time and the black shows up.

So.....at a match I sometimes use a piece of patching material, never used alcohol etc. as I have good locks that spark well and don't need it.

 

[snakebit]

Down here you better plan on wiping the frizzen before you shoot. Especially in summer. I keep a strip of cloth on my shooting bag also but I can hardly say it is clean

Clean in the sense of no oils, grit, snot etc..

 

[Sorry Dude]

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/flintlocks-how-to-shoot-them.38886/
This is a link to a great resource posted on the "old" forum.

Thanks for posting that resource, very helpful for us "Green Horns".

 

[Snooterpup]

Be sure to wipe the frizzen face off with a clean ungreased patch after firing. Do not wipe the frizzen face with your finger. Oils and fouling crud can easily cause a misfire, particularly if there is significant moisture in the air.

Sturmkatze:
again, pure BS! Your thumb Will not hurt that. I’m sorry William-Robert, but I’ve been shooting these since I was like 15. I always use my thumb. I know it’s hard to believe, but they didn’t have plastic squeeze bottles of alkyhol on the frontier.

Snooterpup said:
Oooo, I have been properly chastised and am no longer worthy to contribute.
I also have been shooting these things since age 16 (now 70) so I bow to your superior knowledge. I believe wiping the frizzen and pan are beneficial particularly if in a high humidity situation where the pan and frizzen are soupy black. What will do a better job, your sweaty patch lubed thumb or a clean cloth/patch?
I hope your denigration of my and others suggestions over the years gives your ego a much needed boost.
Thank you so very much,
William-Robert

Who are you to say? I’ll continue to just wipe it off with my thumb. Ugh. Billy bobs and bad advice. Hell, there was no one in my town with flintlocks. I read books. Never had these kinds of problems.

Some squall kittens have been known to impart their thoughts and opinions in a condescending and ungracious manner.
Never had need for the ignore button before but I guess there’s always a first time.

 

[Sorry Dude]

Be sure to wipe the frizzen face off with a clean ungreased patch after firing. Do not wipe the frizzen face with your finger. Oils and fouling crud can easily cause a misfire, particularly if there is significant moisture in the air. Please abandon the thought of removing the breech.
Best left to a gunsmith or very experienced person with the proper tools and jigs.
If you wish to use a brush be certain to use the type that are looped through the attachment, NOT the swedged type. See photo below.

I like the modification you did to your Pedersoli breech. I think it's probably the best thing to do to solve all ills, however you need to have someone who knows what they are doing.