I'm in one of those buy this or that situations

[SharpsburgEnfield]

Working in my family's machine and metal shop Ive come across numerous people throwing in a firearm to lessen the cash load of work needed. Last time it was a Parker Hale P58 rifle that I have been having a literal blast shooting at targets and cant wait to take it to the deer woods. An older gentleman brought in his Willys Wagon for some frame and engine repair and the bill is presumably high. He and I got to talking about my P58 that I was cleaning when he arrived and well I walked right into this situation. He has two rifles that he wants to thin out of his herd. One is an 1863 .577 caliber 3 Band Enfield commerically made for the Union Army and the other is an 1816 Harper's Ferry that was made in 1830 and was converted to Percussion, had a Springfield 1861 rear and front sight added, above all it has a rifled .69 caliber barrel dated 1861. Both have matching bayonets and are both in excellent condition. They were in fact stored in a GAR Hall in Baltimore, Maryland as displays until they were sold to this gentleman via auction in 1959. They both fire as he has videos on his phone firing them at his backyard range. I wasnt allowed to take any pictures though as it was his one request he didnt want the pictures of them on the internet or his name mentioned until after they left his ownership. The 1863 Enfield was made by a Birmingham Small Arms firm headed by J. Bourne. The 1816 Harper's Ferry was converted by Hewes & Phillips of New Jersey. Anyone know which on of these is of a greater collectors value (not to turn around and resell the rifle I choose) just to know I chose the more collectible rifle. Whichever rifle I dont choose will go to his grandson. Thanks to all who reply Ive been online looking up information on these makers and so far I'd have better luck building a time machine to go back and ask the gun builders lol.

 

[poker]

Why not let his grandson choose?

 

[SmoothboreMurph]

Well to be honest, and this is just my general opinion and I could be wrong. The Enfield will probably more of a higher value rifle. The Pattern 1853 Enfield Rifle was one of the most if not the most cutting edge Muzzleloading rifle of the mid 1850s to the early 1870s when the last ones were produced. These rifles by the time of the American Civil War had the easiest to load cartridge the by most accounts required only the wait of the ramrod to load. They had a good sighting system with a rear ladder sight. I couldnt say anything about the Harpers Ferry as I only know of the smoothbore flintlock and conversion percussion smoothies.

 

[bubba.50]

Why not let his grandson choose?

My thoughts exactly.

 

[SharpsburgEnfield]

Why not let his grandson choose?

The gentleman said his grandson already has an 1861 Enfield and an 1863 Justice Rifle (whatever that is). As the gentleman said he wants his buisness done first.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

I agree with SmoothboreMurph on this one. I personally like the .577 Caliber rifles. My father has had one ever since I could remember and just recently picked up two more. They make accurate hunting rifles an are a hoot to shoot. My father loads a .568 bullet that is 627 grains in a paper cartridge with 70 grains FFG powder. He has a 1857 P53, 1856 P56 Short Rifle and an 1871 P53 all originals. He has taken 7 deer with the short rifle which he likes the most due to its handiness. The .69 caliber you have most likely used the Burton Bullet which at times was a real pain in the "a" to load. Beings as how you wont be marching off to battle that will only happen on the range if yoy dont clean up every few shots. My buddy (outside of my little flintlock clique) hunts with his original Springfield 1842 Rifled made in 1844 and he loves it. It also leaves one hell of a hole. He shot a bear out of a tree with it at about 65 yards and the bear fell out stiff. He has taken many whitetails too. The Enfield will match your other rifle but the Harper's Ferry is unique as most were left with a smoothbore. I would choose whichever is better conditioned and if that is both I personally lean to the Enfield.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

Also on a side not to those saying he should let the gentleman's grandson choose. That is a very curtious and chivalrous option. However, since this is a transaction being conducted for payments to a legitimate buisness that he and his family own and operate I must strongly disagree. This transaction is being done between the gentleman and our user here. Mr.Enfield here is taking actual currency off of his work bill to accept a rifle meaning that the rifle of the most value would offset the loss of money for this deal. If our user here chooses the more "valueable" rifle to offset the loss of revenue made in this deal ( albiet at our user's own choice). If the gentleman in question wanted his grandson to have a choice he would've made the choice prior to this buisness arrangement. When my grandfather was diagnosed with alzheimers he wrote up a list of his weapons and had the ones he didnt like at all and the ones that were in poor shape sold, then he left his best to his two oldest sons and left my father with his second rate. He gave me his last grandchild his last weapon he wanted to give up out of his safe. In my opinion this man is a buisness first kinda man.

 

[SmoothboreMurph]

Also on a side not to those saying he should let the gentleman's grandson choose. That is a very curtious and chivalrous option. However, since this is a transaction being conducted for payments to a legitimate buisness that he and his family own and operate I must strongly disagree. This transaction is being done between the gentleman and our user here. Mr.Enfield here is taking actual currency off of his work bill to accept a rifle meaning that the rifle of the most value would offset the loss of money for this deal. If our user here chooses the more "valueable" rifle to offset the loss of revenue made in this deal ( albiet at our user's own choice). If the gentleman in question wanted his grandson to have a choice he would've made the choice prior to this buisness arrangement. When my grandfather was diagnosed with alzheimers he wrote up a list of his weapons and had the ones he didnt like at all and the ones that were in poor shape sold, then he left his best to his two oldest sons and left my father with his second rate. He gave me his last grandchild his last weapon he wanted to give up out of his safe. In my opinion this man is a buisness first kinda man.

Well said, if anyone in my family wanted to sell a firearm they asked family first then sold to an outsider. I was the sucker that said yes everytime with my wallet squealing and screaming lol.

 

[Stantheman86]

I'd take the H&P 1816 Conversion since those are kind of historically important and have a niche following. They were part of the US Ordnance Dept's effort to modernize the vast numbers of beat up and clapped out flintlocks that were in State armories by selecting the most serviceable and converting them to percussion, during the mid 1850's effort to standardize our service rifle on a .58 Minie rifle and use .69 percussion muskets as reserve weapons for a war that we knew was coming.

I believe the Hewes and Phillips were mostly if not all Rifled and Sighted for the .69 Minie Ball.

 

[Tenring]

My thoughts exactly.

Yes .