I'm starting to see what it's going to look like..

[J.D.]

Yeah, I was thinking that too, but only at the top and bottom.

I have seen a coupla original Lemans with thin panels at the top and bottom, but wide panels at the front and back. The thicker panels at the front and back of the lock fools the eye into seeing a longer, slimmer lock panel, and therefore, giving a slim look to the stock.

IMHO, I would only reduce the width of the panel above and below the lock. Blend the narrow part of the panel, smoothly into the wider ends, and it will look slim and sexy.

God bless

 

[J.D.]

The screwed up time limit on editing a post wouldn't allow me to finish, as I was looking for an example to illustrate what I am talking about.

Here is one by Jack Brooks
http://www.jsbrookslongrifles.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=19468421

The ends of the panel can be like those in the photo, or more rounded. Either is correct, as are thin panels, all way around, but, IMHO, wider on the ends looks better.

I agree with Birddog that the nose cap isn't quite right. The top line of the brass should be parallel, or nearly so, to the bore. Not sure what you can do to correct that, but we might be able to come up with something.

All in all, it's looking pretty good. A little more work and you will be getting there.

God bless

 

[sutherland]

You're doing well so far. Along with the other comments, I'd add that the nosecap looks like it slops downhill towards the muzzle. But maybe it's an optical illusion or the cap isn't finished yet. Be sure to let us see when it's finished!

 

[Joe Yanta]

Fellas I do appreciate you comments and suggestions. I am running into an application problem with pannels. I am trying to make the left side and the lock pannel mirror image. I get the point that the stock area on each side of the breech tang rolls gently over and down to the edge of the pannel. On the left pannel, I had to set the smallish side plate high on the pannel so that the lock bolt had clearance through the stock and lock. There is less than an 1/8 inch from the top of the pannel to the top of the lock bolt side plate.

If I take much more off, I will be down into the bolt side plate on the left side. If I take more off on the lock side of the stock and not on the left it is going to look lop-sided.

Now on the nose cap. This is the nose cap that TOTW sent along with all the parts. (I refrain from giving the honor of calling it a kit, its a box of parts. A kit is much easier to assemble).

I read one of Mike Nesbitts' articles and he prefers the TOTW nose cap over TVM's nose caps saying they're correct and look better than the TVM's nose caps. I dont know how correct they are but I think they look better .

You can see that I still need to sand down the forestock to be flush with the nose cap.

Those are my issues, help me out if it can be done.

Thanks

Joe

 

[Birddog6]

Those cast caps are a bugger to deal with, cause they are so thick. I usually have to heat them to bend them to where I want them, take some meat off the top edge where it meets the wood to make it more parallel with the barrel, & take some meat off the very front of it to square it up a bit.
Whether to use one at all just depends on the wood at the nosecap area. If it is a thin area between the barrel inlet & RR groove, I can make one work. But if that wood is very thick there I won't use a cast cap as if I do I end up with a gap between the RR and the nosecap & I don't want a gap there.... :shake: Most of the time I end up making the nosecap, as a cast cap just will not look right. :wink:

 

[Joe Yanta]

Well Birddog I am affraid everything you said is true. The stock has been radiused and thinned to marry flush with the bottom of the nose cap. This went into the web between the ramrod channel and the barrel channel and there will be a gap between the ramrod and nosecap plus some wood between the end of the nosecap and the first ramrod thimble. I think there are three options for me to concider.

1) Cut the barrel and stock about 3-4 inches shorter, relocate the first ramrod thimble and use a different nosecap.

2) Buy a new stock and start over.

3) Live with what I have started and accept it as not being exact replica of the Leman.

Please dont read me wrong. I appeciate and respect your comments. But I will have to go with option number 3.

Thanks to all. :thumbsup:

Joe

 

[J.D.]

I agree with birddog. I'm not the builder that many on this forum are, but I don't like cast nosecaps. They don't fit right. IMHO, the nosecap should be made to fit the stock, rather than the stock being made to fit the nosecap.


The nosecaps on the original Lemans I have seen were open at the front. Many only had a brass band set a coupla inches from the end of the forestock.

I doubt that anyone who sees this rifle at a rendezvous would know the difference, but now that the nosecap has been mentioned, you will probably want to check the information you have been given. :wink:

When you do see a coupla originals, or detailed photos of originals, it will eat at you until you change it. :v :grin:

There are some good photos of, both, a halfstock and full stock Lemans on the Virtual Museum on the ALR site. You will have to run a search to find the URL.

Then scroll down the PA rifles section to "H. Lehman 090128-1"

There is also a good clear photo of the lock panel with wider front and back panel, and a top view of the barrel and forestock. notice how thin the forestock is.

God bless

 

[fitter]

JD's advice id good. Don't worry about the other side s much. If the nosecap is cast you probably have enough material there to file, and or peen.
Forestock still looks a little high in relation to barrel and nosecap

 

[Birddog6]

Joe, I wasn't being picky, you asked to critique it so I am. I think you are doing a good job on it, and the nosecap is a normal issue on guys getting started.

One time a guy sent me parts to build a Lancaster. He said "Use these parts". I did. When I got done he said he liked the rifle except for the gap between the RR & nosecap. I referred back to him saying "Use these parts" rather than "Keith, what do you think of these parts ?".

All is not lost tho, as if you want it right you make a nosecap & fit it & go on. You don't have to cut the barrel off or anything drastic like that.
On the existing one, you could have set the nosecap back from the barrel beveled edge maybe 1/16" more would have looked a tad better. And side view, maybe the top part of the nosecap where the edge meets the wood needs to go down a tad. This might take a little of the slope look off it.
But, as said, most people will not notice it.

You are doing fine Joe........ When you do the next one you will find LOTS of things you will do differently. :wink:

 

[Joe Yanta]

I did some think'n and experiment'n last night. Lets see whatcha think about these ideas.

First the pannels: My concern is, if I take much more off of the lock pannel the curve along the top of the stock is going to droop and look lop-sided. Here is a pix of existing.

You can see if you study it, your eye can detect a slight droop, but you have to look for it.

I can afford to take maybe a 32nd or 3/64th off of the left pannel and stay out of the lock bolt side plate.

The narrowest part of the lock pannel measures 5/32nd just under the frizzen spring. I have penciled a line 5/32nd parallel under the lock and then opened it up a bit towards the rear and then towards the top of the lock to about a 1/16th below the top of the existing edge of the pannel. I think I could do this without making the top of the stock lop-sided.

Now the nosecap:

The pencil line on the stock is 1 1/16 inches from the points on the angle edges seperating the flats of the barrel.

I have some epoxy maple putty. Hard, hard stuff. I could knead some up and fill the area where I inleted for the cast nosecap. This area will be covered and only you and me will ever know the truth. :wink:

The front of the cap will be open and stained dark and this is what it would look like.

This is some of the maple epoxy filled into the ramrod groove of the peice of stock I cut to length and stained.

Today is a good day for contemplating and voting. I have some other things to do on the stock I can do today. Tomorrow I'll return to address these issues.

So, how ye vote?

Thanks again for your help.

Joe

 

[Birddog6]

I guess it all depends on if you want a open ended nosecap or a closed end one. Something that only you can decide. :hmm:

 

[Joe Yanta]

Birddog I was thinking of forgeing an open ended nose cap out of 1095. I am just not that good with hammer, anvil and forge to make a closed ended nosecap 1 1/16 inches long.

Joe

 

[Joe Yanta]

J.D. wrote:

The nosecaps on the original Lemans I have seen were open at the front. Many only had a brass band set a coupla inches from the end of the forestock

J.D. After looking at the Gonzomann's pictures for the 60th time I think I have figured out what is wrong with my (TOTW) nose cap. The pictures are taken from a half stock Leman rifle. The brass nosecap that TOTW supplies with their kit is for a half stock Leman and looks very much like the nosecap on the 1/2 stock Leman in Gonzomanns pictures. I will start making a different nosecap out of iron.

Of the originals you have examined, were any closed off on the front or solid?

Thanks

Joe

 

[rich pierce]

You can make it all work. My advice:

1) take wood off the top of the forestock to reveal 2/3 of the barrel. This will slim up the whole forend and allow you to use that nosecap if you want to stick with it.

2)Go ahead and slim down those lock panels on top and take the sideplate side lock panel right down to within 1/16" of the "washer". I know that late guns often had fat panels that did not line up with the top of the side flat, but when the panels do line up with the top of the side flat, a gun looks real good.

 

[Birddog6]

You can make it out of mild steel if you want.Once you fit it & glue & pin it in, it's not going anyplace.

 

[pulaskius]

Congrats on a GREAT start she's looking real nice !

I think actually starting may be one of the hardest parts ... I have a stock that I bought over 3 1/2 years ago and just now started "sanding" on it :haha: :shake:

I look forward to seeing the rest of your build !!!

 

[Joe Yanta]

Thanks Pulaskius, I appreciate your comment. With all the help and patience of the fine gents on the forum I am sure it will turn out well.

I got the nosecap hammered out, the lock pannel trimmed down and the top of the stock at the breech radiused out. I tried some of my own eye foolery that I think helped on the pannels. I'm starting to get pumped.

Glad to hear your starting back to work on your project. Be sure and post some pics so we can follow your progress.

Thanks for your interest in my project.

Joe

 

[doulos]

Joe
What size is your barrel?
1 inch or 15/16ths

 

[Joe Yanta]

Doulos I went with the 15/16th barrel. It seems like it was a pound lighter than the 1 inch. I wanted a rifle that was light as I could get it. I think the finished weight of my Leman will be just over 7 pounds when finished.


Joe

 

[doulos]

Its gonna be a great hunting rifle. Looks great