Importing a PH Enfield

[Sir Boniface Harrison]

About 30 years ago I was in the American Civil War Society in the UK, and had a Parker Hale Enfield made into a smoothbore which I held on a shotgun certificate. The chap I gave it to has recently contacted me, noticed I was back into muzzleloading, and has said that I can visit him anytime to collect my old gun. Something I would love to do. Now, here's the question: given that I live in France and there are no restrictions on BP weapons, would I be able to just collect this next time I visit the UK and take it back with me, or would I need a temporary shotgun certificate to transport it? Any information would be gladly received. So, in a nutshell, I am importing a BP gun from the UK (license needed) to France (no restrictions).

 

[Felix the Cat]

OK..

Provided it is smoothbore and the barrel is longer than 24" it is still classed as a shotgun under UK law. You would need your shotgun ticket to possess one in UK.

That said, the people to ask would be the Police Firearms unit in the area where the gun is currently held. They may be happy to issue you with a temporary pass and give advice on current export arragements.

I would also check the French Customs & Police and the ferry company as things can get interesting at the port if you don't happen to have the correct colour paperwork!

If all else fails, export it via a Registered Firearms Dealer in the area where the gun is held.

 

[Sir Boniface Harrison]

OK..

Provided it is smoothbore and the barrel is longer than 24" it is still classed as a shotgun under UK law. You would need your shotgun ticket to possess one in UK.

That said, the people to ask would be the Police Firearms unit in the area where the gun is currently held. They may be happy to issue you with a temporary pass and give advice on current export arragements.

I would also check the French Customs & Police and the ferry company as things can get interesting at the port if you don't happen to have the correct colour paperwork!

If all else fails, export it via a Registered Firearms Dealer in the area where the gun is held.

Thanks Felix, that seems the best thing. French police will be fine but it's the driving from the North of England and telling the customs the UK side that is the worrying thing. Another option I thought of was taking the nipple off, thus making it technically deactivated...!

 

[Felix the Cat]

Thanks Felix, that seems the best thing. French police will be fine but it's the driving from the North of England and telling the customs the UK side that is the worrying thing. Another option I thought of was taking the nipple off, thus making it technically deactivated...!

Regrettably removing the nipple does not qualify as "deactivated" in UK these days!

That would require an appointment with Mr Angle Grinder and Miss TIG followed by a trip to the Proof house

 

[Rudyard]

Regrettably removing the nipple does not qualify as "deactivated" in UK these days!

That would require an appointment with Mr Angle Grinder and Miss TIG followed by a trip to the Proof house

If its not down on some shotgun Ticket now why bother the UK Customs .Just drive to France job done .I took a Brown Bess to 'Do' Waterloo just over & out back no bother .My mates had some' Passport 'but my musket being original didn't need one I sold it to Mick Long .He could say " It was used at Waterloo" it might originally & It was true either way. Is Stan Share still on the go ? I used to buy his rust streak barrels he took to Nottingham arms fairs external all pitted Bores oddly generaly good one became a pet good out the 600 yards & for hunting here in NZ & British Columbia wedded to a Cawnpore lock & an old gunstock I might have whole 4 quid in it. but my its seen some bush miles .along with a 24 bore two grouve' Pet'. Bores good internally if pitted so you cant see the makers name it came as a job lot a friend got from Dufty's along with a pair of Jacobs barrels he had read Hans Busk & concluded a prejudice against Mechanically fitting projectile's All these rust streaks got stocked same story Naf exterior good bores . The Ex Stans 490 being made for a three winged projectile . I made all three moulds but Jeff Tanner's belted ball got more bush use in it . Pardon my waffleing on. I just figured you might know Stan Share Of Ardentinny .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Felix the Cat]

If its not down on some shotgun Ticket now why bother the UK Customs .Just drive to France job done .I took a Brown Bess to 'Do' Waterloo just over & out back no bother .My mates had some' Passport 'but my musket being original didn't need one I sold it to Mick Long .He could say " It was used at Waterloo" it might originally & It was true either way. Is Stan Share still on the go ? I used to buy his rust streak barrels he took to Nottingham arms fairs external all pitted Bores oddly generaly good one became a pet good out the 600 yards & for hunting here in NZ & British Columbia wedded to a Cawnpore lock & an old gunstock I might have whole 4 quid in it. but my its seen some bush miles .along with a 24 bore two grouve' Pet'. Bores good internally if pitted so you cant see the makers name it came as a job lot a friend got from Dufty's along with a pair of Jacobs barrels he had read Hans Busk & concluded a prejudice against Mechanically fitting projectile's All these rust streaks got stocked same story Naf exterior good bores . The Ex Stans 490 being made for a three winged projectile . I made all three moulds but Jeff Tanner's belted ball got more bush use in it . Pardon my waffleing on. I just figured you might know Stan Share Of Ardentinny .
Regards Rudyard

Can't say I do.. I am on the east coast, but I do know most of the current shooters in the wild west...

Geoff Tanner passed a few years back, but his lad still runs the mould business.. I have a fair number of his moulds. Weller & Dufty are also long gone, but I think Holts took over their business.

But I would be very careful about trying to export a repro. Customs are a LOT jumpier about guns than they were a few years back...!

 

[Rudyard]

Can't say I do.. I am on the east coast, but I do know most of the current shooters in the wild west...

Geoff Tanner passed a few years back, but his lad still runs the mould business.. I have a fair number of his moulds. Weller & Dufty are also long gone, but I think Holts took over their business.

But I would be very careful about trying to export a repro. Customs are a LOT jumpier about guns than they were a few years back...!

I knew Jeff had gone, Only place I knew customs search bags going out was India till they started X raying stuff in the US then UK got that way now the worlds gone picky with visas onword tickets ect in 1966 I went from Milan to Bombay overland & not One border bod asked for such nuisances. I had just 16 pounds. I lucked onto one ride Belgrade to Istanbull but Turky was a hard haul. Iran just cheap buses to Baloochistan . Pilgrim ship Karachi to Bombay deck passage ,owed a French mate couple of quid till my bank got me 84 quid. Rail to Rameswaram ferry to Ceylon, 6 week till P&0 came out and got to Fremantle with a whole 3 Quid to my name June 1966 those where the days . Ran back via Portugees Timor 1969 all up to Bangkok into Burma to Calcutta the so dubbed ' ' Milk Run' No fund check till border of Afghanistan . lucked onto a returning UK Coach who just wanted to see the white cliffs of Dover a mob of us at a Persian quarantine camp they checked for Chorrera Ide been two months up in Kathmandu sick so pleased to get the lift, a dozen or so hippy sorts also availed of the coach we arrive four driving days till Dover grey dawn customs bod asked" Anything to declare?" Nobody said a dicky bird. I had a mate's Sitar what other exotica was aboard I could well guess but that was that . My Previous trip into West Africa I carried a horn of gun powder for ten months no bother non of todays' kittens' about every thing .Brave new world P on it .
Regards Rudyard nice to use the slang I trust you followed it .

 

[Felix the Cat]

No worries with you "slinging the bat"... used to it!

The world has certainly changed since the 60s.. Chicken Street is not a welcoming place any more, although I did bring back a Snider and a Lebel from Kandahar market a decade or so ago! Not sure any western folk are safe anywhere east of Italy any more on their own. The days of hippy hitchhiking across the Kush are long gone...

The problems we have in UK with firearms are mostly from "imported cultures" that the powers that be find difficult to deal with. The only other "criminal" use of firearms is from farmers topping themselves. The UK authorities are not familiar with dealing with firearms as they were in the 60s when most of them had served. They just panic when they encounter anything out of their "safe spaces"..

I despair at times!

 

[Sir Boniface Harrison]

The UK authorities are not familiar with dealing with firearms as they were in the 60s when most of them had served. They just panic when they encounter anything out of their "safe spaces"..

I despair at times!

...and that is the very reason I am worried about transporting my old PH Enfield from the North to the Channel ports, and across to France. I suspect that without documentation of some kind, if I am checked by the customs people at Dover and they find it, they will take it off me - even though it is perfectly legal for me to have it in the car once I am in France!

 

[Felix the Cat]

...and that is the very reason I am worried about transporting my old PH Enfield from the North to the Channel ports, and across to France. I suspect that without documentation of some kind, if I am checked by the customs people at Dover and they find it, they will take it off me - even though it is perfectly legal for me to have it in the car once I am in France!

That is why I suggest you get in touch with the firearms department in the Police force where the gun is at the moment. Look up the website for the police force in the area and they should have the contact information.

They will hold the current record of where the firearm is and will need to be informed anyway. By contacting the department directly, you have a better chance of getting sensible advice and the required authorisations.

Moving firearms is the one situation where it is sensible to ask first..

 

[Rudyard]

Well if its now off ticket it might be clanger for the holder might be wise to check him first . Re overlanding any where today you are probably right. Though I did find that even if the Governments where at odds with UK . The populace didn't take it out on a UK citizen. Islamic values hold a place for travelers & guests . But I pity todays would be young traveler & feel that WE my generation' Had the best of it' despite being war babies .Now its all High Viz ,' Osh' botheres & regulated to death at every turn and of course anti gun, anti, hunting, anti everything, some Pratt dosn't like but knows nothing about . Well Ime sat in me shorts on another fine sunny day in Paradise.( Only snow we get in winter is on the nearby mountain tops )I voted with my feet years ago. Anyway that's irrelevant.
Regards Rudyard

 

[springfield art]

So lucky, those of us in the USA; but every day, some politician twists him/her self into those pretzel poses the old time India swamis did, to come up with a law that would contradict the Constitution; yet another book was just published by some guy who parsed every pen-stroke of the documents, in order to cancel out the meaning of the Second.

 

[TFoley]

Being in possession of a replica 'shotgun' requires holding a Section 2 Shotgun Certificate - there is NO legal way around it.

My advice is for the current owner to take it to an RFD and have it sent to France - to another RFD in order to complete the transaction and keep it legal. anything else, especially transporting an illegally-held firearm from oop North and down to a Channel Port, is rife with uncertainties.

TBH, I've never heard of a 'temporary shotgun certificate' - perhaps such a thing exists, but my F&ELD has not heard it.