India-Made, With A Flair

[zimmerstutzen]

As I suspected, no rational response.

We can only conclude that the whole story is a fabrication

 

[coloradoclyde]

This has been known to cause a flared muzzle...

 

[Alden]

Nope, just watching the sideshow act along with you, the Moderators, and everyone else...

 

[Zonie]

That brings up the question, did the event that you posted even happen or is this whole topic just a pot stirrer :stir: ?

 

[coloradoclyde]

That brings up the question, did the event that you posted even happen or is this whole topic just a pot stirrer :stir: ?

The defendant has chosen to remain silent. :hmm:

 

[nhmoose]

For Alden, name the dealer and manufacture so we new guys don't get screwed. Or it DID not happen. IMHO. Not a dis mind you but come on back it up please

 

[matt denison]

:bull: :stir:
Been trying to figure this thread out. None of it makes sense. Sorry I wasted my time. All nonsense. Maybe I shouldn't spend time reading this cr*p.

 

[Alden]

Hey, Tenngun figured it out.

Unsolicited, the sly Indians put a #2 Morse Taper in the muzzle to better secure plug bayonets!

B(u)y the way, in full disclosure, I don't in any way benefit from selling Tennguns, Indians, Morse Tapers, muzzles nor plug bayonets here or anywhere else.

 

[hawkeye2]

"Unsolicited, the sly Indians put a #2 Morse Taper in the muzzle to better secure plug bayonets!" :rotf:

Not only that but it would hold dead center better! :grin:

 

[Alden]

Could hold a Live Center too for that matter Hawk!

 

[Okwaho]

Hey there Matt,I just finished reading this complete thread and you are correct in your assessment.But It was my "PENANCE" :idunno: .I would recommend Shakespeare who wrote a play and P.T.Barnum whose evaluation cannot be forgotten. But hey I cannot help but consider this thread as a great endorsement of your products :v :I shall eagerly await the two by fours and railroad spikes which will be forthcoming. :thumbsup:
Tom Patton

 

[Alden]

The helpful coordinator of the dog-n-pony show, who is also a gunsmith, fixed the ramrod and swears it'll work again. Not in my soft, pink, paws it won't. LOL

I rec'd the delrin rod from Track for the 54" barrel expecting it would replace the original ramrod (they sell it under the actual name of the gun, like a brown one I bought at Dixon's for my T/C Hawken). I was mistook -- it is an extra-long, thick, range rod.

 

[Oldham]

I made a round ball mold for a customer's original 4 gauge Cape rifle. The muzzle measured to a true 4 bore (1.052" plus or minus a few thousandths) so I made the ball about .015 or so smaller for a patch. It went about 4 inches in a stuck solid. After pulling the ball I measured deeper in the bore (like I should have at first) and it tapered down about .010" or so. Don't know if that was because of wear or if they made it coned to load easy. Anyway, I was able to rework the mold and all was well.

 

[Alden]

Sad how that happens.

By the way folks, one more thing about this India-made gun...

...when I went to try putting it in the gun just on the off chance I was wrong I noticed the entry ramrod thimble is cracked at the muzzle end!

LOL

 

[Rudyard]

Hummm. I think of the oft quoted remarks about tha accuracy of the Kings muskets. That if not illy bored, as many are,ect. Maybe you have a more hc musket. Show it to people who comment on your trade gun slings :haha:

I think your quoting Hanger re the ill board & bent. What can happen was the excessive force with a B net whether in action or digging a grave there is a tendency to find the barrel bent down & with a slight left hand bend. plus excessive heat as in rapid firing can expand the barrel its pins in the loops not so much a problem but the stout front sling screw can force the barrel downwards .Years ago me being eager beaver Ide restocked a vile but important in its way African Trade gun, I used concrete ' Blue Nails' as pins these are glass hard. Ime washing it out when the heat from the hot water expanded the barrel and with no allowance for movement it snapped all three pins since when I used normal nails for pins & file horizontal allowance for expansion . In hot climates the sun alone can cause barrels so contained to bend .
.Conversely I fired a percussion 451 in 46 below zero one Sunday up at Mackenzie British Columbia we where working with just alternate Sundays off but I was determined to shoot , A friend's car heated near by & I fired 8 shots by which time I could no longer grasp the rifle or load the rifle .Ere I scurried back to the car . Still got the target pinned to my shed door if the Silver fish havn't eaten it .
Rudyard's two pennoth

 

[Rudyard]

I made a round ball mold for a customer's original 4 gauge Cape rifle. The muzzle measured to a true 4 bore (1.052" plus or minus a few thousandths) so I made the ball about .015 or so smaller for a patch. It went about 4 inches in a stuck solid. After pulling the ball I measured deeper in the bore (like I should have at first) and it tapered down about .010" or so. Don't know if that was because of wear or if they made it coned to load easy. Anyway, I was able to rework the mold and all was well.

I have a much restored big bore For African game gun its about 6 bore , Was a wreck but now I seek the Private parts of an Elephant to wrap around the lock.. Not many Elephant's in N Z & any that may be would lickley have strong objection to my purpose .The Acclimatization Society's brought all the four legged animals they could gather but left Elephants & Bears of their wish list .
Your new to the Forums ?
Welcome from NZ Regards Rudyard

 

[Rudyard]

I think I see the problem......"India Made Gun"

Solution....use it for show and buy a decent gun to shoot.

As you can surmise, I am not a fan of India made guns. They may be okay for playing dress up or shooting blanks at a reenactment but on the range.....IMHO, they are junk.

Ive handled lots of them Never had a problem you are it seems somewhat prejudiced against Indian guns Sure their not up to Purdey but you get what you pay for .mostly .
Rudyard

 

[Rudyard]

Dear sir
First of all, I want to say that I am not that good in express myself while writing in English. From your post I can under stand only that the gun is worse to use. I don't no the mathematics of a gun.now I want to clear two things, one is that the gun is "made in India" secondly the gun is tested, proofed, and sold to you by your own dealer. As far as I know, these so called guns exported as "imitation"guns from India. They are not tested or proofed here.that may be junk, I agree that.now, what is your dealer doing with them? If they are so crude, why don't he throw that at the face of that producer? How can he sell that ugly thing there? What about his testing and proofing of that thing? Is it impossible to throw that things back and put some quality standards and technical advice before that manufacturer?
They are just like that kid with you, in knowledge .they don't have modern machinaries or technology.they are not cheating you intentionally. They are just poor at their work, that's it.every shooter here prefer one imported from England,Germany, USA others over our own products.but here there is a ban on importing of fire arms, and everyone is not capable of affording one.they are manufacturing according to their knowledge and capability that depends on the capability of buyers.
And it is not good to blame a whole country for the fault of some manufacturers, that too for "not intended "fault. Main defaulter here is the importer, why he is cheating you by saying that guns are tested and proofed?
Please don't misunderstand.
Thank you sir.

Well I follow you and agree all I sold on I had proofed in Birmingham and all stood proof they are less critical for blanks but that's mostly as the variance of evenness is less critical .
Regards Rudyard

 

[flconch53]

Did a dog-n-pony show recently. A kid with Brown Bess jammed a ball in it so hard it had to have the breech unscrewed and ball hammered out the next day. To keep the kid in action as well as the 18th C. represented (the show must go on) I lent him a fairly new India-made late doglock of that era I had with me from one of the US sellers. The seller had proofed it but the kid said it wouldn't work so I set up the lock for him and test fired it with powder only -- ka-boom.

I hadn't shot the gun myself but had ball for it with me I use dry in a .69 matchlock and .69 1704 English military gun. I pushed a less-than-.69 sprue-free ball flush into the bore horizontally, it fit well, and it rolled back out. The kid was good to go! But in his first demo he jammed the ball about 7" down the tube. What? kid?

An experienced coordinator on the spot trying to be helpful broke my ramrod trying to ram the ball home for the kid. I borrowed a 19th C. steel ramrod and we were able to pound the ball down with quite an effort including using its momentum like a pile driver at the breech of the much longer flintlock's tube. The kid was too scared to fire it so we did...

I contacted the seller and asked him what ball he usually recommends for this particular gun both with a wad and for PRB. He would not answer but instead asked me what the chart on the Owner's Manual said. I told him I have no idea but that shouldn't matter -- just looking for his experience with his products. He asked for the serial number to look it up. Nice of him, but I said there was no need and changed the question...

"Do the barrels on all these [particular model] guns flair open at the muzzle"? His answer!? "They will all flare out a bit towards the breech but they don't always flare toward the muzzle. Fluctuations like that have to do with the bore being honed to remove any chatter marks from when the tubing is made." Holy carp. He went on to explain that won't effect accuracy, accused me of losing the manual, and told me how long the flint should be and how many grains of what powder to load, LOL. OK, he was trying.

I responded that if there was a manual in English I read it at the time and there were obviously no surprises. I explained that mine was a general question on the particular model he sells, about his experience and personal recommendations. I also pointed out that his using a micrometer caliper on a muzzle that flairs due to honing away imperfections [and tbe seams!?] where they're visible to the naked eye to jot them down means a manual's information wouldn't be particularly helpful, no less especially accurate, nor would such contribute to the gun's accuracy.

I told him to rest assured that it was a short French flint (bevel down if he must know, wrapped in thin lead and perfectly tight as well as squared to the face of the frizzen) with 70 grains of FFg down the bore and 5 grains of FFFFg in the pan. I also told him ignition wasn't a problem and then told HIM what had happened loading it with a less-than-.69 diameter ball, and that I'd never seen such an inherent dimensional problem before.

Though he resented my dismissal of his bore measurements if the barrels are flaired he then conceded they were useless. He had measured it at .683. The median bore on this .69 gun is under .680. The seller then recommended .630 to .678, LOL, as well as trial and error. Duh, gee, thanks for all the help!

"Satyameva Jayate" is the motto of India.

That is because their main market is reenactors who primarily shoot blank charges.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Never did give the name and date stamped on underside of the barrel.. avoided giving the information despite several repeated requests. Credibility is seriously doubtful.