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Indian long land pattern, first impressions.

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mr.fudd

36 Cal.
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Dec 1, 2007
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So I received my Brown Bess from MVT today. I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but I have looked it over fairly well and here are my first impressions of it.

The metal work is in many ways better than I expected. Most of it has been finished nicely and there are very few visible tool marks. The trigger however had the most gawdawful release I have ever encountered in 33 years of shooting. It broke with so much force that I was seriously worried about bending components of the lock. Not wanting to send it back right away, I disassembled the lock and found the problem, (the sear was ground at such an angle that it was fighting the hammer spring when I pulled the trigger). A few strokes of the file and a little moly grease and it's now working properly. It's still a very heavy trigger however with probably a 20 lb pull. I'll probably have to rework it again in the future. The threads on the hammer were a little rough, but I just ran the jaw screw through it's range of motion about a dozen times and it loosened up.

The wood was a bit of a disappointment. The exterior of the stock looks reasonably decent. I don't like the stain or the finish on the rifle, but the wood actually appears to have a reasonably attractive grain to it. The problem is the inletting. It's not bad enough that I would return the rifle over it, but I could do better work myself and I'm not much of a stock maker. On the outside you couldn't see any glaring errors, but when I removed the lock it looked like the stock had been carved out by a drunken beaver. Surrounding the retaining plate I actually found two small areas where they had filled in their mistakes with wood putty. At some point I'll probably refinish the stock and I think that at that time I'll take a little fine sandpaper and at least even up the inletting and get rid of the rough edges. In fairness, you have to get up pretty close to see the errors, but on a $600 gun I kind of expected a little bit more.

The sling that it came with is made of very thin soft white leather. I like the way it laces to the swivels, but other than that I'm not at all impressed with it. I figure I'll use it as a pattern however to build a more substantial one later.

It'll probably be about two weeks before I actually get out to shoot it. It's my first muzzleloader, so I have a fair amount of equipment to buy first.
 
mr.fudd said:
In fairness, you have to get up pretty close to see the errors, but on a $600 gun I kind of expected a little bit more.
I know $600 is no small amount, but keep in mind that a similar style gun by an American maker will run 3 or 4 times that much, at least. Take a look at some of the stuff for sale at Track of the Wolf for some examples. Keeping that in mind, I think the Indians do a reasonable job. The Indian guns aren't terribly pretty or smooth, but they function, and they allow us "po' folk" a chance to own a type of gun we otherwise couldn't. If she shoots okay, I'd say she be a good platform for whatever improvements you may want to do in the future (cleaning up the wood, for example). :thumbsup:
 
I have a long land from MVT and for the price I'm quite satisfied. I use it primarily for reenacting but do occasionally fire live rounds with it. The springs I think come from old VW beetles and are very stiff. But, it fires when I squeeze the trigger consistently. Our unit has a number of Italian muskets and my MVT musket is far more dependable. I would rather spend 600 for a dependable musket than 1200 for one less so. I don't have any experience with Military Heritage but their waranty bothers me. As soon as you drill the touchhole, you void the waranty. Just my experience and I'm sure others will vary.

Don R
 
Mike Brooks said:
Sounds like a pretty typical example.

I'm guessing you're probably right. I'm also thinking that with a little work it will be fine for my purposes, which are basically just recreation at the gun range and learning a little about history and different firearms at the same time.

I'm also thinking that it will probably clean up OK.
 
Don R said:
I have a long land from MVT and for the price I'm quite satisfied. I use it primarily for reenacting but do occasionally fire live rounds with it. The springs I think come from old VW beetles and are very stiff. But, it fires when I squeeze the trigger consistently. Our unit has a number of Italian muskets and my MVT musket is far more dependable. I would rather spend 600 for a dependable musket than 1200 for one less so. I don't have any experience with Military Heritage but their waranty bothers me. As soon as you drill the touchhole, you void the waranty. Just my experience and I'm sure others will vary.

Don R

I came to pretty much the same conclusion as you regarding $600 vs. $1200 muskets. There's nothing wrong with paying for quality, but after reading I just decided that the $600 gun would be adequate for what I'll be doing. If I were looking to spend more and thinking investment wise, I'd probably get an original.

I wasn't trying to run these muskets down at all, but rather was trying to present an honest view of them, warts and all and I expected a few warts. The inletting was worse than what I expected, but the metal was better. The trigger was just plain inoperable, but fixing it turned out to be relatively easy. Too often I find that on the internet people don't admit that their guns are anything less than perfect, or conversely that the guns they don't like have some redeeming qualities.

Bottom line is that I got something similar to what I expected and I would consider buying another Indian gun. I like the looks of the Tanegashima and brass blunderbuss over at Loyalist a lot.
 
mr.fudd said:
Mike Brooks said:
Sounds like a pretty typical example.

I'm guessing you're probably right. I'm also thinking that with a little work it will be fine for my purposes, which are basically just recreation at the gun range and learning a little about history and different firearms at the same time.

I'm also thinking that it will probably clean up OK.
If it will make you feel any better, I bought a original India pattern Bess dated 1827 for $200 years ago and shot it alot for several years. Wood to metal fit was excellent, the trigger pull was about 5 lbs , it wasn't polished on a buffer, and didn't look like a cartoon. Unfortunately, I suppose the days of $200 original Bess' are long gone. :(
 
Mike: Got ya beat on this one. I paid $175.00 for my original 3rd Model dated 1805 in extreamly good condition. Only problem was an incorrect main spring and hammer screw. But, I ordered the "original" correct parts from Dixie for around $10.00. You're right. Those days are long gone. :(
 
That's OK, I might have missed out on the days of original Besses at reasonable prices, but I have a safe full of K31's, M39's and various Mausers and Enfields, some of which I paid less than $100 for.
 
mr.fudd said:
That's OK, I might have missed out on the days of original Besses at reasonable prices, but I have a safe full of K31's, M39's and various Mausers and Enfields, some of which I paid less than $100 for.

Sounds like my safe USED to be but they were sold to fund a Mike Brooks fowling gun. Should be here over the winter and fill a big void. I had some nice walnut K-31's in VG I had bought for 60.00 a piece shipping included :thumbsup:
 
Hello All

Glad to hear that some folks are giving the Indio's a chance and with todays failing economy I may have to go the India route myself! I don't know if Military Heritage re-works these the way
Loyalist claims to do but I would buy from the cheaper source and re-work the gun myself! :v

Cheers,Rob
 
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