Ihave originals that I would never think of even firing blanks out of, they have ordenance proof marks ,but a lot people shoot live loads out of the same muskets . A proof mark means that the barrel past proofing ounce, it may burst later on.
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Indian Made Arms
- Thread starter cositrike
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"A proof mark means that the barrel past proofing ounce, it may burst later on."
Thatb is the real point about proofing it seems of questionable value unless the gun is completely checked out before and after with the best equipment available, I have felt better using my Colerain, GM, Getz or what have you barrels unproofed rather than to really pour the stress to them once then figure all is well if they do not show visable signs of damage.
Thatb is the real point about proofing it seems of questionable value unless the gun is completely checked out before and after with the best equipment available, I have felt better using my Colerain, GM, Getz or what have you barrels unproofed rather than to really pour the stress to them once then figure all is well if they do not show visable signs of damage.
Va.Manuf.06
58 Cal.
Randy Johnson said:
I've read it.... when it was new. And have reread it several times over the years. It makes many good points but they have been proved questionable over and over again. Just as our concern over the quality of Indian barrels may be proven wrong at some point. However, American barrel makers state openly and plainly what material and methods they use when manufacturing their barrels and no one can doubt their word. The Indians? Not so much, we have no idea what they use and it may vary widely from batch to batch. Some steels are fine for gun barrels some are not. With an unknown quantity, you can never be certain what you have.
OK, well I'll freely admit that I just bought an arm 'made in India', even though my toy closet is already full of quasi-production BP flintlocks (Caywood) to semi-custom Left-Handed arms (Douglas barrels of SOUP origin [Source Of Unknown Pedigree]) to custom BP arms (made by me) to originals (English fowlers like you'd see in Grinsdale's tome).
I did it as I wanted to 'try' an English matchlock without dropping a sizeable investment, as I'm saving for a true custom (by well reknown maker) arm.
To that end, I intend to 'proof' it with a double-ball heavy charge and have it magna-fluxed before and after, as well as recording breech dimensions to the 10/1000ths of an inch before & after too.
We'll see the results here ... pictures and all ... good or bad ...
I did it as I wanted to 'try' an English matchlock without dropping a sizeable investment, as I'm saving for a true custom (by well reknown maker) arm.
To that end, I intend to 'proof' it with a double-ball heavy charge and have it magna-fluxed before and after, as well as recording breech dimensions to the 10/1000ths of an inch before & after too.
We'll see the results here ... pictures and all ... good or bad ...
1853enfield
32 Cal.
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here we go again. the real question i have is has anyone seen a muzzle loader made in india that has blown up?? heck on one of the other forums one guy posted that thompson center has had hundreds of their hawkin rifles blow up with standard loads. i have a shotgun made in india it does have proof marks and it says it is profed for 89 gr. of bp with 1-1/4 oz of shot. now will it blow up if i mess up and load 90 gr>? i have had a lot of fun with my 12 ga double made in the afore mentioned country. my thought is that most black powder arms that do blow up are shot with something besides black powder. i would like to see at least one picture of a rifle or shotgun blown up that was made in india. 1853enfield
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/forum/viewtopic/id/1466,/There was also a documented failure of an 1853 Enfield repro made in India.
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Posting alone does not create fact. TC stories have been going around since the first (non)-hawken hit the market. In the early years many of the negative reports were valid. I know, I experienced it. But the blowing up thing is largely bull butter.
1853enfield
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i couldnt get your link to open. but do you know what caused the blow up??? maybe wrong powder? double triple charge? i would like to know more before i condem anything. if you make enough of anything there will be a falure somewhere along the line. just like the early springfields most that blew up were caused by shooting the wrong ammo. some from a single lot of ammo. as was said just because it is posted on a forum dont make it a fact. 1853enfirld
even if i say it.
even if i say it.
Yeah, doesn't seem to work. Do a google search, you'll find it there was a lot of discussion on it. It blew with a blank charge, there may have been a bore obstruction. The Enfield repro was a new gun with a clean barrel, it also blew with a blank charge.
Joel/Calgary
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Robert Egler
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Copy the link, post it into a browser, delete the ",/There" at the end (no quotes), and it will work.
Some of these same guys goated me into buying a rather expensive custom made rifle of a well know maker because of how much more better it will be than my TC's are. They were wrong and I am not going to fall for buying an India gun to find out how poor they are. :bow:
I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle as it always seems to. They probably are not as good as some say but also probably not as bad as some say. :hmm: A main problem with this forum is some are agenda driven and not factually oriented. :shocked2:
OK, I may have to buy one. The curiosity is just too great! :grin:
I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle as it always seems to. They probably are not as good as some say but also probably not as bad as some say. :hmm: A main problem with this forum is some are agenda driven and not factually oriented. :shocked2:
OK, I may have to buy one. The curiosity is just too great! :grin:
A friend of mine new to muzzloading but very enthusiastic has a middlesex matchlock.Today he loads a 750 bare ball into a very fouled barrel and got the ball stuck about 4 inches down.We hammered and pounded it down with a steel rod for about 15 minutes till we finaly got it down on the charge of 95 gr of 2F.We were all kinda nervous as I'd never seen a ball that had to be hammered down that hard,No chance of pulling it.Well he goes and touches her of with no problem and continued on the woodswalk with no ill affect(Though he did switch to a 735 ball after that)
I bought a Hesian military Jaeger from Veteran Arms last year,I saw a picture of it, on a you tube clip, and I liked the looks of it.After I bought it I found all the negative posts on the internet and got worried.Well the gun came and it was real nice to look at, and it sparked ok.I took it to the range and loaded with 50 grains of black powder and patched ball. I leaned way back away from the gun turned my head away and pulled the triger,the gun went off and looked ok.So I took careful aim for 3 more shots.it shot about 2 feet high at 25 yards,Then it would not spark anymore and the lock was real loose.So I went home and took the gun apart to clean it real good,well the screw That is behind the barrell above the trigger, when I took it out, it looked like a nail someone fashioned into a screw,the screws that were holding in the lock wern't much better,I was pretty disapointed.I fixed the problem with the lock,and it sparks again but I have not shot it since last summer,it still is pretty to hang on the wall though,550 dollar lesson.Also when I put a pipe cleaner in the touch hole it bent to the right going in where they had to drill the hole at an angle to avoid the breech plug.I am not one to raise a fuss over such things so I never complained to the company about the gun,I guess its not there fault. I recently went to their web site though and did not see the gun I bought offered there anymore.
The "Indian" war rages on, I see. :grin: I have two Indian pistols, a Dragoon from MVTC and a percussion horse pistol from TOTW. Are they phenomenal, beautiful guns? No. But they have both functioned fine while I've had them. The only prob I've had with either was something I caused myself trying to tinker with the lock on the Dragoon. 
I sent the gun back to MVTC and it was fixed free of charge but with an admonition not to screw with it again. :haha: They even cleaned up and rehardened the frizzen while they had it there. Can't complain.
I sent the gun back to MVTC and it was fixed free of charge but with an admonition not to screw with it again. :haha: They even cleaned up and rehardened the frizzen while they had it there. Can't complain.I am not giving up on the gun its to pretty,The breech plug looks like it does srcew in there is a line etched on the plug and barrell that looks like line up marks of some kind,but there are no marking on the barrell at all even to say what caliber it is.I ran a camera bore scope down the barrell and it looked ok, no seams.When I load it though there is resistance all the way down the barrell that is consistant until the last 3-4 inches then the load justs drops in to an open space.I wonder about that.
Sorry for your experience. Lesson learned.
First, I'll state there is a big difference between bigotry and bias. Bias is learned behaviour, not hate. I have seen too many articles and documentaries on how Indian workers are treated and paid to have confidence in almost any product made there. Children are sort of rented to diamond polishing houses. The children work and live in inhumane conditions and get no pay. They polish diamonds with very unsafe equipment. One report said there are 250,000 of these children. People who hand cut and carve on bone beads earn, maybe 50 cents a day. Personally, as much as I grieve at such things, I cannot bring myself to have confidence in any products made in India. BTW, it wouldn't surprise me if many of us here wear necklaces with some of those hand carved beads. No way would I want to shoot a gun made under those conditions. The owners and managers of such companies seem to have no conscience at all.
First, I'll state there is a big difference between bigotry and bias. Bias is learned behaviour, not hate. I have seen too many articles and documentaries on how Indian workers are treated and paid to have confidence in almost any product made there. Children are sort of rented to diamond polishing houses. The children work and live in inhumane conditions and get no pay. They polish diamonds with very unsafe equipment. One report said there are 250,000 of these children. People who hand cut and carve on bone beads earn, maybe 50 cents a day. Personally, as much as I grieve at such things, I cannot bring myself to have confidence in any products made in India. BTW, it wouldn't surprise me if many of us here wear necklaces with some of those hand carved beads. No way would I want to shoot a gun made under those conditions. The owners and managers of such companies seem to have no conscience at all.
I was shooting my 1717 french musket(from Middlesex) that day and boosted my charge to 80 2F and was very pleased with the performance 50% of the targets (which is good for me on a rifle woodswalk)My custom bess doesnt spark as well as this one.
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