Indian-Made Besses?

[DanChamberlain]

Are they any good?

Dan

 

[Russianblood]

Yes

 

[Mike Brooks]

"good" is a relative term......differs form person to person. :winking:

 

[Russianblood]

"good" is a relative term......differs form person to person. :winking:

I was thinking along those lines and thought about posting "good for what?"

 

[ffffg]

first id like to say that i dont own or have never seen an indian bess.. im sure there are those that have them and are happy with them.. my experience is with pedersoli.. the problem with forign production guns is that gunsmiths dont like to work on them, suppliers dont like to order parts for them,... in all productions, the runs vary.. the quality of the company and thier quality of employees make the runs consistent or not.. if the parts vary the replacements wont fit.. usually in these type guns there are no parts.. if there is a warrantey it is replaced dureing the short worranty stage, and after that its good buy... if you find a used one and it works fine, and sparkes well and doesnt have problems at the range, and its a good price, its probably a fairly good gun.. if it does have problems at the range, or you need parts, or work done in the future, things can get complicated, sometimes its an easy fix by the local gunsmeith, sometimes its a new lock,.. the last time i checked my mortimer lock was running about 300 dollars.. and that is far as the parts will be broken down,... there are no guarantee the parts will fit my exsisting gun.. jim chambers parts run in the 12-20 dollar range for the small minor lock parts ive needed and i had them within a week or shortly longer, and their was no fitting nessesary on the minor stuff i needed. .. i ordered a pedersolli second barrel for my mortimer years ago, and it had a dogleg in it. along with the flashole being 1/2 inch off, .. it also would take some considerable fitting... i had a fight to return it, if i didnt pay with credit card i may have never gottern my money back, but he (pedersoli's importer) was plently mad.. so to be truthfull im not wild about the idea.. id go to some rondevues and buy a used whatever that at least works well on the fireing line, if you want to save some money.. cabellas alows you to return problems and that would be as low as i personally would want to go on a bess.. when you go below a cost point on any item the dealer will dodge any problems or costs, he has to.. when you go above a certain point in quality/cost, your going to get expert service,parts, warranty, etc with a smile... my opinion only, im sure youl get other opposing views as good as mine. :grin: dave..

 

[DanChamberlain]

Thank you all.

Dan

 

[aloyalistdawg]

Hello guys
Yea I wowned one, needed a lot of work done to it... the end result was great however there was one in the line down from us. The dgrain on the woos sucked and when it split from over loading I sent mine away for good... My regular Pedisoli takes hot blank loads all day never waviers...
spend the cash save your a...
My best regards a loyalist Dawg :hatsoff:

 

[PvtC]

They are OK if you are a soldier burning powder at F&I and AWI reenactments. They are heavy. They look pretty good when stacked in the bell of arms. If you want a smoothbore to carry afield, try to scrounge up a couple hundred extra bucks for the Pedersoli or a simple undecorated 7-8 lb fowling piece.

 

[Parzifal]

I have shot the piedersoli and own and often shoot my indian 1 st model bess bought from Loyalist arms...I prefer my bess ...Period...

Its as stout a arm as any, and worthy of the title BROWN BESS!!
Some companys that sell these foreign made arms dont inspect them nearly as well as they should,

that is why in my opinion some folks nag on em so much,Sure shes foreign made but I assembeled and finished her off here.

Frankly shes the finest bess I have ever seen and shoots straight.

And gents the description is STOUT not heavy..
HAR HAR HAR..

My 2 cents..

Robert

 

[DanChamberlain]

Thanks for the replies.

Robert, how much finishing did you have to do with your gun?

Dan

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Robert, when you assembled and finished the Bess, did you pull the breechplug and check the fit? I have always wanted a first hand account from someone who has done that as it is the only thing that worries me about the Indian made guns - they go through no proof process. I agree that they are interesting and for a reenactor there is no better buy...

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

The guns aren't proofed, and are made by 3rd world workers, in 3rd world conditions. The Italians on the other hand have excellent proof laws.

Since people don't come with readily available replacement parts, I'd think long and hard before I fired an item intended for display only. There is a good reason that these guns aren't drilled for a flash hole. They aren't made to be fired. The explanation that they can leave the country more readily undrilled, is true, but misleading. It is easier to ship a display item than a firearm, because a firearm manufacturer warrants that the gun is safe to shoot. A model manufacturer implies nothing. It is simply a display item.

The display item in question is available for a few hundred dollars. For a few hundred dollars more, you can purchase a proven firearm. Why anyone would risk, eyesight, life and limb for a few hundred bucks is beyond me. It's also cheaper to get a bearskin by clubing the critter with a good stout stick, but I'd much rather spend a few hundred dollars and buy a gun to shoot it with.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Good post Jim, I am aware of the quality of the Italian made product, bought my first Navy Arms Bess in 1974 when the Italian Brown Bess kits sold for $125 - real mmoney back then and it was excellent after I hardened the soft frizen. The Bess was new from Navy Arms in those days when everyone was getting ready for the Bicentenial and soon you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting one. Since most of the Indian made guns DO come with the touch hole drilled and are ready to fire (Discriminating General is the only one that sells them undrilled, aren't they?), I have always wondered what the plug threads looked like and if the plug was properly fitted, just curiosity on my part. Maybe you have checked one?

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Ooops, I was wrong on the date, it was 1973. :redface:

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

I've never seen one that was drilled by the manufacturer. I've never owned one, and have never disassembled one. The whole Made In India thing scared me.

The Italian guns have the usual warts you'd expect from production guns. The Pedersoli Bess isn't an exact repro of the short land musket, but it is safe to shoot.


I don't have the interest in an India gun, and I certainly don't have the nerve to shoot one. I suppose if you were just using the gun for a classroom presentation, they would be good enough.

 

[mastrsgt]

Jim,

Middlesex village and Loyalst Arms both ship with the touchhole drilled. DG is the only one that does not.
As far as your other concerns, I can't address them but I know these muskets are being used and fired.

Don R

 

[mike alexandre]

Nothing wrong with an Indian made Bess that 2 or 3 days work sorting the lock, trigger ram rod thimbles etc couldnt fix.
Save yourself the aggro and buy a Pedersoli instead - and yes you can get parts

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

Admittedly, I don't own or use the India guns, so I'm no authority. However, these guns are not leaving India with the vents drilled. They are being drilled here, but not being proofed here. The US has never required guns to be prooven, however there is a big difference in the quality of American manufactured arms, and India made arms. When I pull the trigger on a Remington, I don't worry about the rifle not having been prooven. Before I pull the trigger on a gun made by Pishwa in Calcutta I'll think long and hard. I won't be comforted by the fact that someone in Canada or New England drilled the vent.

I have no doubt that these guns are being shot. I have no doubt that some people drink and drive, but I wouldn't encourage the practice.

Life is a series of choices and risks. To save $500.00 I wouldn't take a chance shooting a gun that was made by a workman earning $5.00 per day.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Can't argue with your reasoning, no sir, not at all.Like you I have never owned one and likley never will but have always been curious about them.

 

[hawk]

I have a 2nd model dublin castle and it is fine.
I am in the process of restocking and rebarreling it not for any other reason than I have the barrel and the wood was free.she was 10 lbs with any luck it will shed a couple pounds.
the original stockwood is not the greatest but it seems to be functional.
the lock is strong and fast .
I would suggest you handle them and a pedersolli and get the one that fits you best .