Indian Made Muskets ?

[FlinterNick]

500 to 700, to make one shoot? talk about inflation? well that is it . just what would cost that much to make one of them a shooter? please break it down for me? thank's.

$100-300 for lock work. $100-300 for all other defarbing or alterations and barrel work

 

[muzzlecap]

I don't have an Indian flintlock but I have an Indian made percussion musket amongst my muzzleloaders. It's been shooting for 50 years without a problem, teak wood stock and all, lol.

 

[rickystl]

I own one India made gun that I bought from MVTC probably 10 years ago or more. Then, I believe I paid about $300.00 for a British Heavy Dragoon pistol.
After inspecting the pistol it turned out the notches in the tumbler were cut in slightly wrong locations. So at half-cock the frizzen would not close all the way to the pan with a flint in the jaws. In fact the jaws were so close to the frizzen face that even a custom size flint would not work. So, I sent the lock off to the capable hands of Earl Kathan. He and I thought it would require a new, custom made tumbler. But what he ended up doing was to heat the tumbler shaft and twist it ever so slightly. Then tune the balance of the lock. Worked great after that. And still does.
Then, there was the issue of too much wood. So, not being able to leave well-enough alone, I talked Mike Brooks into reducing the wood and adding his antique finish. I know Mike was not fond of India made guns. But I think he took the job as he had never worked on India made gun at that point. I remember him saying that the type of wood used clogged files/rasps very quickly, and did not easily take a custom stain.
So, with all this extra work I probably have $6-700.00 invested - back then. On the other hand, the only way to get this pistol then would be a kit from TRS. And I could not have someone assemble that for me at that price - even then. With today's costs, you can probably add another $2-300.00 to what I spent back then. So now you're approaching Italian gun territory price wise.
But there are some India made musket models that are simply not available elsewhere except a custom kit from TRS. So I guess it all comes down to what you want, and your budget. It does appear from reading past Threads that the one Canadian distributor has a good reputation. So if you can purchase a musket that may require some simple lock tuning (not like mine), and do any desired wood reduction and re-staining yourself, you could still end up with a bargain.

All that said, it is still hard to beat custom American made stuff LOL

Rick

 

[Stophel]

I think many (most) people are incapable of really discerning quality or detail. For some of us, though, that's ALL we see. For many people, a Hi-Point is every bit as good as a Cabot Custom. An Indian-made "Tulle fusil" is every bit as good as a gun by Mike Brooks or Eric Kettenburg. And if you try to point out the differences, I really believe many won't get it. Even if they do, they don't care. And they cannot fathom why anyone else would care. Just as I cannot fathom how anyone could be satisfied with that Indian "Tulle".

So, you have two entirely different groups of people, with ENTIRELY different thought processes, that will never reconcile with one another. Just the way it is.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

I think many (most) people are incapable of really discerning quality or detail. For some of us, though, that's ALL we see. For many people, a Hi-Point is every bit as good as a Cabot Custom. An Indian-made "Tulle fusil" is every bit as good as a gun by Mike Brooks or Eric Kettenburg. And if you try to point out the differences, I really believe many won't get it. Even if they do, they don't care. And they cannot fathom why anyone else would care. Just as I cannot fathom how anyone could be satisfied with that Indian "Tulle".

So, you have two entirely different groups of people, with ENTIRELY different thought processes, that will never reconcile with one another. Just the way it is.

This

 

[rickystl]

Most gun buyers, like automobiles, have some budget in mind. I remember an old saying from the 1960's: Some people will buy a Volkswagen, some will buy a Cadillac, but most will buy a Chevrolet. LOL Probably still true today.
But I can't help notice todays cost. Weather auction, retail, custom, etc. Prices have really gone up in the last decade or so. Here's a good example: I purchased this custom, built from a blank, Virginia rifle from a outstanding builder in PA exactly 11 years ago this month. It was in new, unfired condition. He included a custom length, soft padded carrying case. Paid $2,500.00 for it in 2010. I'm guessing this same quality gun, built by a good experience builder would be somewhere between the $3-4,000.00 range today (?) That's a big jump for one decade.

Rick

 

[FlinterNick]

I only own two factor guns, a pedersoli Charleville 63/66 and a Miroku charleville. Of the two the Miroku charleville is probably almost spot on in regards to being an accurate representation of an original And its also a very high quality musket with one of the best locks I’ve seen. The pedersoli gun is a high quality shooter but I have nothing good to say in regards to its authenticity as to the model its intended to be, I’ve never considered a defrab for this gun because its too expensive and will not add any real value for a musket that has integral limitations as to being period correct, I can’t make the lock smaller or bigger and I can’t make teh barrel I Lighter, the cost for this defrab at Lodgewood is near upwards the cost of the gun, not worth it, so I love it the Way it is.

I’ve never owned an Indian gun but I have helped out some friends who purchased them from Middlesex, and Discriminating General. For most of the effort they placed into the post purchase, their wish was to never have purchased the Indian made gun because they were not pleased with the qualility.

In disregarding the authenticity of Indian made guns, I’ll stress on the quality.

In terms of Quality, Indian guns are poor quality.

The locks are not done right, I’ve never seen a single Indian made lock was made right with properly tempered parts and the lock‘s timings are always significantly off. The steel used in the locks often doesn’t harden right which leads me to think they use scrap steel which has alloys of nickel in it, India Is know for having massive ship junk yards that are stripped with recycled steel, ship steel has anti corrosive properties in it, one of which is nickel And the other is chromium.

Amost anyone I’ve known who purchased an Indian made gun has had some work done to it, or some type of defraB. Which is not cheap.

and FYI I doubt you’ll find many reputable gun makers who will even work on Indian made guns. Anyone I’ve ever spoken to at some of the top gunsmith shops including TRS will not touch an Indian made gun because of the long list of liability issues they come with.

and lastly, there’s the issue of ‘resale’ the main benefit to going custom made vs. factory made is the custom gun will hold its value and possibly give you a profit. The Italian repro’s hold value but the Indian made guns often will be a sunk cost.

 

[Stophel]

Most gun buyers, like automobiles, have some budget in mind. I remember an old saying from the 1960's: Some people will buy a Volkswagen, some will buy a Cadillac, but most will buy a Chevrolet. LOL Probably still true today.
But I can't help notice todays cost. Weather auction, retail, custom, etc. Prices have really gone up in the last decade or so. Here's a good example: I purchased this custom, built from a blank, Virginia rifle from a outstanding builder in PA exactly 11 years ago this month. It was in new, unfired condition. He included a custom length, soft padded carrying case. Paid $2,500.00 for it in 2010. I'm guessing this same quality gun, built by a good experience builder would be somewhere between the $3-4,000.00 range today (?) That's a big jump for one decade.

RickView attachment 67895

Fifteen years ago, I would make guns starting at about $1500. And that was C H E A P even then. I should have charged twice as much, but you can't do that if you don't have the "name" yet. Gunsmithing is not a very profitable proposition, unless you are "somebody" making very high dollar guns.... or you can churn them out a LOT faster than I can.

There is a staggering amount of work that goes into making a gun. Most people have NO idea.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

You are *setting off an explosion right next to your face*. You should want the best quality you can buy, and by *deliberately* going for low-cost low-quality guns, you very well could be taking your limbs or even life in your hands.

I dont fault people for trying to save money. But you arent buying a bike or a blanket, here. You are *buying a firearm*, and even if you are just going to be blowing loads of powder out of it, the quality of the materials has an effect on whether it blows smoke and fire out of the barrel *or if the barrel ruptures because it is made of parts of.unknown and unqualifiable quality*

AH but after the requirements are met to contain your explosion by your face..., additional cost is moot. For example 12L14 steel is used in America to make black powder gun barrels. Ask the guys who make gun barrels for modern cartridge guns, and they will tell you (as they told me) that 12L14 is NOT gun barrel steel, and is highly risky to use as such a barrel. In fact, NONE of the muzzleloader barrel steels they told me, are safe for gun barrels even if you only use them for black powder. They are experts. YET folks keep buying the black powder only muzzleloader and shooting them without blowing up. You have YET to show that cost is directly proportional to safety. I don't see you upset over the even less expensive Traditions kits out there...., Traditions doesn't make the barrels, btw, for those...,

Just reading online can bring up stories of Indian-made.guns.being built from parts of varying quality, varying fits, and varying standards.
Are more expensive Italian and custom-ordered guns, uh....more.expensive? Yes. But with that increase in price comes increased security that the parts are actually-decent. My gun barrel.came.from a reputable company that manufactures gun barrels. I can look up their standards and contact them with questions about loading charges and tolerances. Where did the barrel on that Indian bess come from? What is it made.from? What are its tolerances?

AH the man-of-faith. The fact is you are taking those maker's "word". OK I get that. Perhaps you've never heard of the Sharon Rifle Barrel company? OR of CVA and the Apollo rifles? Sharon was sued out of business, I'm told. Probably wrongfully, but allegedly a barrel burst. CVA had a recall of the Apollo rifle because its barrels kept blowing up, AND they had actually been to an approved proofing house and proofed. They then switched proofing houses....,

Like I said, I dont want to disparage people without the money for more expensive guns. But when buying things of unknown quality that have a track record for not being very good....you get what you pay for, i guess? And it is your hands and eyes, not mine.

NO Actually if you are standing next to me..., there's no guarantee that that it won't be your skull that's injured, if a barrel was to "blow" BUT, you assume too much, (IMO) and here's why...,

First, it' is documented that more non-Indian muzzleloaders have exploded, than have India parts flintlock muskets. That's a fact. You can go on YouTube and find more videos of muzzleloaders exploding, that aren't "Indian". And there are lots of others that have been reported that aren't on YouTube.

Second, those rifles that have exploded that aren't made from the Indian parts..., Exploded..., which showed that they had been loaded with smokeless powder. Period. So HOW do you expect to ensure that some clown doesn't use smokeless powder, and blows himself up and bystanders too, including maybe you?
You Can't

Third, lots of people say that Pedersoli proof tests all their barrels, and they do. We have members of this forum that have bought muskets made with India made barrels, and these purchasers live where they must proof their muskets to legally own them. They have reported that their muskets passed the proofing house test(s) and got proofing marks. Now that doesn't mean that mine, from the same source, is just as safe as theirs..., but so far as we know, nobody has submitted muskets from the same sources as those that have failed.

Fourth, so continuing about proofing from above..., ALL that proofing does is tell you the barrel was safe, according to that particular proofing house standard, when the barrel left the facility. For example, the Italian proofing house I researched and found it tests at 140% of the max load of powder plus one projectile, while the British and German proofing houses test at 260% and double projectiles..., the German house also has a set size for the touch hole and if the hole is not exactly that size the barrel fails before testing..., now the Spanish houses test at 200% but batch test, so they take say ten barrels from one maker, and choose two, and when those two pass, they stamp the other 8 as well..., which may explain the CVA Apollo.... BUT..., after that quality musket has left the factory, how do you ensure that the owner keeps the barrel in safe, firing condition year after year after year, and perhaps owner after owner after owner?
You Can't.

Fifth, just because the price is higher is NO assurance of anything other than what you payed.
I bought a barrel from an American company, and it came from the seller with the breech plug installed. I could get information on the steel if I wished, and the company was reputable. It met ALL of your criteria, but..., when I took a look at the breech, I found that the beech plug was improperly fit, There was a gap between the breech face, and the barrel walls as the breech was just a tad too short. No worries it was replaced. What would've happened had I installed it on a rifle? Likely nothing, but it would've left an area thinner, and prone to corrosion.

See I own and live fire no less than four, India parts muskets. Nothing bad yet.

OH and I own a rather expensive Pedersoli Bess, that has had a lot of expensive, cosmetic surgery, to more resemble an older version Bess musket. It's no Dave Person special, but the changes on it do add up. It's probably at least worth $1000 because of the changes made..., I don't reenact with it. WHY should I be expected to run the risk of banging up such a nice piece by trundling it through the woods, and reducing its value, simply to appease folks who think cost = safety?

You can continue to rest easy on the fallacies that you cited. It's a false sense of security in my opinion. All you can do is rely on the vendor, your own inspection or whomever you contract to do the inspection, and the product track record. Regardless of who puts their name on it and the country where it was made.

LD

 

[LSU520]

View attachment 67995




AH but after the requirements are met to contain your explosion by your face..., additional cost is moot. For example 12L14 steel is used in America to make black powder gun barrels. Ask the guys who make gun barrels for modern cartridge guns, and they will tell you (as they told me) that 12L14 is NOT gun barrel steel, and is highly risky to use as such a barrel. In fact, NONE of the muzzleloader barrel steels they told me, are safe for gun barrels even if you only use them for black powder. They are experts. YET folks keep buying the black powder only muzzleloader and shooting them without blowing up. You have YET to show that cost is directly proportional to safety. I don't see you upset over the even less expensive Traditions kits out there...., Traditions doesn't make the barrels, btw, for those...,



AH the man-of-faith. The fact is you are taking those maker's "word". OK I get that. Perhaps you've never heard of the Sharon Rifle Barrel company? OR of CVA and the Apollo rifles? Sharon was sued out of business, I'm told. Probably wrongfully, but allegedly a barrel burst. CVA had a recall of the Apollo rifle because its barrels kept blowing up, AND they had actually been to an approved proofing house and proofed. They then switched proofing houses....,



NO Actually if you are standing next to me..., there's no guarantee that that it won't be your skull that's injured, if a barrel was to "blow" BUT, you assume too much, (IMO) and here's why...,

First, it' is documented that more non-Indian muzzleloaders have exploded, than have India parts flintlock muskets. That's a fact. You can go on YouTube and find more videos of muzzleloaders exploding, that aren't "Indian". And there are lots of others that have been reported that aren't on YouTube.

Second, those rifles that have exploded that aren't made from the Indian parts..., Exploded..., which showed that they had been loaded with smokeless powder. Period. So HOW do you expect to ensure that some clown doesn't use smokeless powder, and blows himself up and bystanders too, including maybe you?
You Can't

Third, lots of people say that Pedersoli proof tests all their barrels, and they do. We have members of this forum that have bought muskets made with India made barrels, and these purchasers live where they must proof their muskets to legally own them. They have reported that their muskets passed the proofing house test(s) and got proofing marks. Now that doesn't mean that mine, from the same source, is just as safe as theirs..., but so far as we know, nobody has submitted muskets from the same sources as those that have failed.

Fourth, so continuing about proofing from above..., ALL that proofing does is tell you the barrel was safe, according to that particular proofing house standard, when the barrel left the facility. For example, the Italian proofing house I researched and found it tests at 140% of the max load of powder plus one projectile, while the British and German proofing houses test at 260% and double projectiles..., the German house also has a set size for the touch hole and if the hole is not exactly that size the barrel fails before testing..., now the Spanish houses test at 200% but batch test, so they take say ten barrels from one maker, and choose two, and when those two pass, they stamp the other 8 as well..., which may explain the CVA Apollo.... BUT..., after that quality musket has left the factory, how do you ensure that the owner keeps the barrel in safe, firing condition year after year after year, and perhaps owner after owner after owner?
You Can't.

Fifth, just because the price is higher is NO assurance of anything other than what you payed.
I bought a barrel from an American company, and it came from the seller with the breech plug installed. I could get information on the steel if I wished, and the company was reputable. It met ALL of your criteria, but..., when I took a look at the breech, I found that the beech plug was improperly fit, There was a gap between the breech face, and the barrel walls as the breech was just a tad too short. No worries it was replaced. What would've happened had I installed it on a rifle? Likely nothing, but it would've left an area thinner, and prone to corrosion.

See I own and live fire no less than four, India parts muskets. Nothing bad yet.

OH and I own a rather expensive Pedersoli Bess, that has had a lot of expensive, cosmetic surgery, to more resemble an older version Bess musket. It's no Dave Person special, but the changes on it do add up. It's probably at least worth $1000 because of the changes made..., I don't reenact with it. WHY should I be expected to run the risk of banging up such a nice piece by trundling it through the woods, and reducing its value, simply to appease folks who think cost = safety?

You can continue to rest easy on the fallacies that you cited. It's a false sense of security in my opinion. All you can do is rely on the vendor, your own inspection or whomever you contract to do the inspection, and the product track record. Regardless of who puts their name on it and the country where it was made.

View attachment 67996

LD

Your waiting for Indian made guns to blow up, well I know of three that have, one was a recent as 2018 in England.

You seem to really know a lot about Indian made muskets being Safe, well then why does Loyalist Arms and Veteran Arms sell ones that can’t take a live round ? they sell them at a 50% discount with the disclosure that they can only shoot blanks...

Not sure what is so hard to understand that a bad product is a bad product Indian made guns are not all fire crackers waiting to burst but the quality control just is not there.

Yes, American made barrels are not made of the same steel as a 22 remington or AR10, because it doesn’t need to be, its a black powder firearm. What matters is that the barrel is made well enough for shooting.

junk garbage trash save your pennies for a real product of quality.

You do know that the Indian Army doesn’t use its own manufactured guns right ?!

 

[LSU520]

Fifteen years ago, I would make guns starting at about $1500. And that was C H E A P even then. I should have charged twice as much, but you can't do that if you don't have the "name" yet. Gunsmithing is not a very profitable proposition, unless you are "somebody" making very high dollar guns.... or you can churn them out a LOT faster than I can.

There is a staggering amount of work that goes into making a gun. Most people have NO idea.

Indian made muskets were a cheap way for dealers to enter into a rough reproduction arms market. There’s always been a lot of demand for different types of reproduction arms. India Had been producing ‘wall hangers‘ for a very long time and it was an easy market to enter.

 

[nightwolf1974]

Well I for one intend on buying a flintlock pistol from MSVTC this summer, since they are only a few miles down the road. I've heard for years both sides of the debate on Indian made guns, but I'm finally moving forward on it!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

You seem to really know a lot about Indian made muskets being Safe, well then why does Loyalist Arms and Veteran Arms sell ones that can’t take a live round ? they sell them at a 50% discount with the disclosure that they can only shoot blanks...

They sell them because there are people who want prop-guns or blank firing only guns. Remington and Smith & Wesson once sold starter pistols... it didn't make the guns they sold to actually fire unfireable.

The muskets that I've bought came ready to fire, including the flash deflector that are required for reenactment pieces. They also came with a ball and a fuze and instructions to perform a personal test if the buyer wished to do so. Sounds like evidence that they are intended to be fired.

Your waiting for Indian made guns to blow up, well I know of three that have, one was a recent as 2018 in England.

Well first, I'd like to see the documentation, like a newspaper or newsletter article that names the maker and the model, and if the one you claim in England had been proofed in England, then did the barrel fail or did the user screw it up? Even Italian musket barrels aren't proofed against stupid.

Second, my quote is "India parts flintlock muskets", not rifles or rifled muskets nor pistols etc, and it was not quite precise I admit, because I should've specified the vendors, BUT since you're not accurate in what you wrote, then you can't blame me either.

To date, there is ONE documented India parts musket used by a reenactor in the USA or Canada, that bugled and split a barrel when firing, and it was firing a blank. It was an MVTC musket and it was sent to an independent lab, and the user made an error, which can happen even to Italian muskets. I've asked many time for people who claim to "know" of other failures, to provide documentation, or at least to put me in touch with those that may have it....,

Still waiting for that information too....

LD

 

[nit wit]

Some of the US custom builders used seamless tubing for barrels. You have to remember there is not much resistance in a smooth bore barrel. I haven't seen one blow up yet.
Nit Wit

 

[toot]

$100-300 for lock work. $100-300 for all other defarbing or alterations and barrel work

if you are afraid of any one knowing it is an INDIAN GUN, why defarb it? it will still be an INDIAN GUN? and just what barrel work has to be done to it that cost's $300.? just what lock work comes to $300? that is a lot of lock work? it just make sense $ wise? oh well, JMHO.

 

[Ranger 1755]

Purchasing a firearm is a matter of choice, budget and historical accuracy. That being said, people do what they can and afford and I don't judge others for it. But for me personally, I would never buy an Indian made musket.

 

[toot]

I don't have an Indian flintlock but I have an Indian made percussion musket amongst my muzzleloaders. It's been shooting for 50 years without a problem, teak wood stock and all, lol.

ROGER THAT!

 

[toot]

View attachment 67995




AH but after the requirements are met to contain your explosion by your face..., additional cost is moot. For example 12L14 steel is used in America to make black powder gun barrels. Ask the guys who make gun barrels for modern cartridge guns, and they will tell you (as they told me) that 12L14 is NOT gun barrel steel, and is highly risky to use as such a barrel. In fact, NONE of the muzzleloader barrel steels they told me, are safe for gun barrels even if you only use them for black powder. They are experts. YET folks keep buying the black powder only muzzleloader and shooting them without blowing up. You have YET to show that cost is directly proportional to safety. I don't see you upset over the even less expensive Traditions kits out there...., Traditions doesn't make the barrels, btw, for those...,



AH the man-of-faith. The fact is you are taking those maker's "word". OK I get that. Perhaps you've never heard of the Sharon Rifle Barrel company? OR of CVA and the Apollo rifles? Sharon was sued out of business, I'm told. Probably wrongfully, but allegedly a barrel burst. CVA had a recall of the Apollo rifle because its barrels kept blowing up, AND they had actually been to an approved proofing house and proofed. They then switched proofing houses....,



NO Actually if you are standing next to me..., there's no guarantee that that it won't be your skull that's injured, if a barrel was to "blow" BUT, you assume too much, (IMO) and here's why...,

First, it' is documented that more non-Indian muzzleloaders have exploded, than have India parts flintlock muskets. That's a fact. You can go on YouTube and find more videos of muzzleloaders exploding, that aren't "Indian". And there are lots of others that have been reported that aren't on YouTube.

Second, those rifles that have exploded that aren't made from the Indian parts..., Exploded..., which showed that they had been loaded with smokeless powder. Period. So HOW do you expect to ensure that some clown doesn't use smokeless powder, and blows himself up and bystanders too, including maybe you?
You Can't

Third, lots of people say that Pedersoli proof tests all their barrels, and they do. We have members of this forum that have bought muskets made with India made barrels, and these purchasers live where they must proof their muskets to legally own them. They have reported that their muskets passed the proofing house test(s) and got proofing marks. Now that doesn't mean that mine, from the same source, is just as safe as theirs..., but so far as we know, nobody has submitted muskets from the same sources as those that have failed.

Fourth, so continuing about proofing from above..., ALL that proofing does is tell you the barrel was safe, according to that particular proofing house standard, when the barrel left the facility. For example, the Italian proofing house I researched and found it tests at 140% of the max load of powder plus one projectile, while the British and German proofing houses test at 260% and double projectiles..., the German house also has a set size for the touch hole and if the hole is not exactly that size the barrel fails before testing..., now the Spanish houses test at 200% but batch test, so they take say ten barrels from one maker, and choose two, and when those two pass, they stamp the other 8 as well..., which may explain the CVA Apollo.... BUT..., after that quality musket has left the factory, how do you ensure that the owner keeps the barrel in safe, firing condition year after year after year, and perhaps owner after owner after owner?
You Can't.

Fifth, just because the price is higher is NO assurance of anything other than what you payed.
I bought a barrel from an American company, and it came from the seller with the breech plug installed. I could get information on the steel if I wished, and the company was reputable. It met ALL of your criteria, but..., when I took a look at the breech, I found that the beech plug was improperly fit, There was a gap between the breech face, and the barrel walls as the breech was just a tad too short. No worries it was replaced. What would've happened had I installed it on a rifle? Likely nothing, but it would've left an area thinner, and prone to corrosion.

See I own and live fire no less than four, India parts muskets. Nothing bad yet.

OH and I own a rather expensive Pedersoli Bess, that has had a lot of expensive, cosmetic surgery, to more resemble an older version Bess musket. It's no Dave Person special, but the changes on it do add up. It's probably at least worth $1000 because of the changes made..., I don't reenact with it. WHY should I be expected to run the risk of banging up such a nice piece by trundling it through the woods, and reducing its value, simply to appease folks who think cost = safety?

You can continue to rest easy on the fallacies that you cited. It's a false sense of security in my opinion. All you can do is rely on the vendor, your own inspection or whomever you contract to do the inspection, and the product track record. Regardless of who puts their name on it and the country where it was made.

View attachment 67996

LD

WOW!! that rely hit's the nail squarely on the head!! my sentiment exactly!! I like it!

 

[BEP]

We have our own opinions. One more thought, though. LSU520 - about that India-made musket that failed in England in 2018 that you mentioned; you are aware by law that firearm had to go through a formal proof before it could be owned and fired, right? If a proofed gun fails there's usually something else in play.

 

[FlinterNick]

Your waiting for Indian made guns to blow up, well I know of three that have, one was a recent as 2018 in England.

You seem to really know a lot about Indian made muskets being Safe, well then why does Loyalist Arms and Veteran Arms sell ones that can’t take a live round ? they sell them at a 50% discount with the disclosure that they can only shoot blanks...

Not sure what is so hard to understand that a bad product is a bad product Indian made guns are not all fire crackers waiting to burst but the quality control just is not there.

Yes, American made barrels are not made of the same steel as a 22 remington or AR10, because it doesn’t need to be, its a black powder firearm. What matters is that the barrel is made well enough for shooting.

junk garbage trash save your pennies for a real product of quality.

You do know that the Indian Army doesn’t use its own manufactured guns right ?!

if you are afraid of any one knowing it is an INDIAN GUN, why defarb it? it will still be an INDIAN GUN? and just what barrel work has to be done to it that cost's $300.? just what lock work comes to $300? that is a lot of lock work? it just make sense $ wise? oh well, JMHO.

I’ve never purchased an Indian made gun for the following reasons.

1. I don’t like the look of them, they’re chunky and have far less details than some of the lesser graded Japanese and Italian repro’s.

2. I enjoy do a refinish on my guns when I buy them, there’s no way I’m refinishing teak.

3. Most of the muskets I own are Charlevilles, my heaviest one is 11 lbs by pedersoli, I’ve held a Veteran Arms Charleville which is around 13 lbs without the bayonet.

4. I don’t like reworking their locks, I’ve done this before and its a unworthy hassle. Not knowing what kind of steel you’re working with is part of the problem of working with Indian made gun Locks.

5. I don’t trust the barrels, I’m aloud to have this opinion, just like many gunmakers and smiths out there I feel as they do that the barrels are not prepared with care and diligence.


for those who think they explode or not, its not relevant to me, I don’t care. Most of the time guns explode because people dont’ clean them and drop in 120-130 grains for an atomic muzzle blast. To me that’s like dropping diesel in a mustang for a few moments of joy.