Inexpensive Flintlock: Fun, or Frustration?

[OldNo7]

I think we all have guns we dream about, or guns we’ll get sooner or later, and sometimes we get lucky and those two combine to our benefit. For some reason, the gun that is calling out to me lately is an inexpensive flintlock...

I saw it in a local gun shop several weeks ago after an unsuccessful (rifle season) deer hunt, and I just can't stop thinking about it... It's a 44 caliber Euroarms "Kentuckian", with a nice 1-piece (not 2-piece) stock and a 35" barrel. Here are some pictures of a similar one that just sold on GunBroker for $350:

I am pretty sure I can get the one I saw for just $220 out the door, but I will have to replace the ramrod, as the original was a 2-piece deal, and the one on it is broken off and missing the short extension. The condition of the gun is about the same as shown, with decent wood and trim lines, with nice bluing and a case-hardened lock. Made in Italy, some internet research (including many posts from this site) suggests these Kentuckian's can be fine shooters with the right powder, ball & patch combination, but the locks are either good or bad. So some tuning of the lock, and/or hardening of the frizzen, may be needed.

I guess that what attracts me to this rifle is it could be a neat project gun in an area of the shooting sports that I haven't jumped into yet. My twin brother is into flintlocks -- and matchlocks too -- big time, as he has over 6 or 8 of them from the French & Indian period, or earlier. I've shot his several times, but never got the bug to get my own, until now...

To date, all of my blackpowder experience has been with a Ruger Old Army, 1861 Colt or several T/C sidelocks (first a .56 Renegade, then a .50 Hawken, and now a .45 Cherokee), using Pyrodex and percussion caps. Though lately, I have switched to using 777, as I can easily clean them at the bench downstairs with the Hoppe's milky BP solvent. Getting this flintlock will require me to finally get into some real blackpowder in 3F and 4F grades, as well as flints -- and then learning all about flintlocks and their magic & mystery.

OK, so maybe I've watched "Last of the Mohicans" or "The Patriot" too many times, but I really like the long, slim lines of this Kentucky-type rifle. It handles really well, and although its accuracy and reliability are unknown and could be an adventure of sorts, I can picture myself trying to "Aim Small, Miss Small" with this at the range or in the Maine woods.

So the questions to the forum are...

* Would you take a chance on an inexpensive flintlock like this to "get your feet wet" and see if you really enjoy the challenge and extra efforts?

* Or, would you hold out and spend 2X or 3X (and you could easily spend many X more!) to get a better quality flinter to get into the sport with?

It's odd that I can't stop thinking about getting that longrifle to play with, as I’ve never been attracted to/interested in flintlocks before, despite my twin’s urgings...

As it's still there in the shop and I've been mulling it over for a month or so now, I could really use some feedback from others here on what you might do in this situation. Thanks!

Keep your powder dry. :thumbsup:

Old No7

 

[ohio ramrod]

It depends on your level of "trial and error frustrations" . If you don't get frustrated easily it good be a good deal. The Italian guns have better locks than the Spanish ones. If rehardening the frizzen (If needed) doesn't bother you, it is probably a good deal. But any flintlock has a learning curve and some people get to frustrated to deal with less than ideal flintlocks. :idunno:

 

[flintlock75]

I was given one of these guns as a gift in 1975, a flintlock in .44cal. I was just a kid but this gun got me hooked on black powder and flintlocks. That rifle was reliable and accurate. I shot my second deer ever with that rifle and have been hunting with flinters ever since. I think for a first flintlock you wont go wrong with this rifle, as with many guns you will need to experiment with loads, flints etc. to get the most reliable combo. In my old gun I used a .430 ball, .010 patch and 80 gr of 3F, it was a good hunting load and accounted for several deer. Flintlocks are not for everyone and I know many shooters who don't like them and stick with cap guns. Starting with an inexpensive gun will give you a taste for them. If you like it then you can always buy a more expensive gun later.
Good luck and good shooting. :wink:

 

[Rifleman1776]

The big issue with El Cheapo flintlock rifles is: does the lock work?
It may need tuning, new mainspring, frizzen hardening, mantras at midnight, etc.
Otherwise, go for it at right price.

 

[jim gray]

I started shooting flintlocks many years ago with my father's .54 caliber T/C Renegade, but when I got older and had to supply my own, a Traditions Deer Hunter was my first. It was a great little gun, shot reliably, hit what I aimed at, and led to a number of other flintlock and percussion guns. The Deer Hunter, sadly, is gone, but that cheap rifle never gave me any problems aside from user errors, and performed as well as any I currently own. All are commercially produced or semi-custom however.

 

[Arrowstorm]

The big issue with El Cheapo flintlock rifles is: does the lock work?
It may need tuning, new mainspring, frizzen hardening, mantras at midnight, etc.
Otherwise, go for it at right price.

He is right on the money. I have a Traditions rifle that would only spark about 50% of the time until I got so frustrated I called Traditions and asked if they could fix it or something and they ended up telling me that the lock on my rifle was bad and had been recalled and they sent me a brand new lock of a different design.

Your lock looks like my old lock :/

If you can get your hands on it, fire the lock. Make sure it throws a nice spark and throws the frizzen open consistently. If so, I think it would be worth any shot you're willing to give it.

 

[gunmaker43]

I have 2 of those a capper & a flinter. Both bought in 1973 and are very accurate rifles, lite and handy. The flintlock-lock had to be reworked a bit to get reliable ignition, Hardening the frizzen with kasenite 3 coats solved the problem. Now days there are smiths out there who can completely re-build a lock to near perfection. Give me the shops number--I'll take it for 200 :haha: :haha: Just be sure of the bore. ....Tom

 

[rafterob]

I built my Son a rifle around the barrel of The Euroarms Kentuckian and it is very accurate. I would say check out the lock to make sure it functions and check the bore out. See if you can get it for $150-175. That's more in line with its value (at least in my market area).

 

[buffcreekforge]

Run away! Run away! I had one of those rifles - it was my first muzzleloader and it almost put me off muzzleloading firearms entirely! The lock sparks inconsistently, the gun is very front heavy, and the buttplate bites like a junk yard dog. 5-6 pulls of the trigger to get one shot was the norm. The gun looks nice until you try to play with it - sort of like a spoiled pretty girl. It will make your life miserable. To repeat my initial advice, run away!

I remain your humble servant,

Just Dave

 

[hanshi]

These rifles are excellent shooters and they are attractive. The only trouble you MIGHT experience will be with the lock not sparking reliably. If you don't mind a little tinkering with the lock, the rifle ought to be a good way to start off with flintlocks.

And, yes, there is a learning curve with flintlocks no matter how high the lock quality is. Ask questions, tinker and don't try to settle with a lock that isn't reliable. They can be good locks and usually only take a bit of work.

 

[Hans74]

The only thing I would be concerned about getting a used muzzleloader flint or cap and that is a walnut from short seated balls. Some you can see on the outside some you cant. I would invest in a drop down bore light and check it out. A lock can be fixed but a walnut is another deal.

 

[Hans74]

The above reply was for old no7 not Black Dave
Forgive my error. I dont get along with this keyboard talking

 

[Zonie]

That rifle is identical to my first flintlock.

I never had a problem with the lock. It was fast and dependable.

It really is a .440 caliber gun so you will have to use patched .430 or .433 diameter roundballs in it.

The buttplate does have enough of a hook to it so it is more comfortable to position it out on the arm a bit rather than up close to your chest.

Several javalina's fell to my gun without a problem. IMO, it would make a suitable deer rifle but as with all .44's and .45's I recommend limiting the distance to the game to about 80 yards.

Being a flintlock, it will need real black powder for the main powder charge and for priming.
I recommend using 3Fg powder for both.

The only reason I sold the gun was, over the years I built a number of flintlocks. I still have a lot of them so I figured someone might like my little Kentuckian.

About a year after selling it, I ran into the buyer at a gun show.
I asked him how he liked it and if it shot as good for him as it had for me.

He said his wife thought it was too pretty to shoot so she claimed it and it's still hanging on his wall.

 

[Kapow]

For gods sake, you want it so get it. If you don't get along with it sell it again. You aren't laying down a fortune and the risk is only what you may lose in the resale. You may also make a few bucks.

Personally I think you'd do better with a Pedersoli Kentucky in .45 or 50. A few more $$ but less chance of disappointment and better/easier resale. Also a bit more effective on larger game.

Whatever you get look at it as a vehicle for entertainment, enrichment and education into the world of flint. No hissy fits if things don't work straight away.

 

[dave61965]

i started with a kentuckian flinter also and with a little tinkering its turned out to be pretty reliable, no regrets here for starting with it,im sure there arent alot of folks beating down his door for an import flinter and you say its been there at least a month, i say shake 150 cash at him and you will prob be the proud owner of it, go for it.

 

[nkbj]

You'll regret it if'n you don't.

 

[Dane]

Having had both...... Go with the better gun. The difference is phenomenal. The frustration of a cheap gun will turn you off to flinters.
IMHO

 

[huntsman247]

Old No7, if you don't do it send me contact info and I will.....I have owned several "cheap imports" and they have served me well.

 

[Dave Patterson]

You mentioned deer hunting, in passing; I don't know about your home state, but if you ever intend to hunt with that rifle, you might check your state big game laws first.

Some Western states require .45 or larger bore...

I agree with whoever said, a lot depends on your capacity for dealing with frustration, and your like/dislike for tinkering; that, and it's not like you'd be doubling the national debt.

Heck, if you get it, and don't like it, PM me; I'll buy it off you to tinker with for The Bride: she's in exactly the same stage of curiosity you are, and has forbade me to spend more'n a few hundred on a rifle for her... and I LOVE to tinker!

 

[Many Klatch]

Buy it. The cost is negligible and looks to be a cheap way to get started. You have an advantage most new flintlock shooters don't have, you have a twin that is experienced in flintlocks to help you out. If your twin has a half dozen old style front stuffers then he is experienced enough to make this new gun work whether it has one of the good locks or not.

Many Klatch