Inexpensive flintlocks...

[goon]

CVA bobcat .50 Caliber percussion.
I would have preferred getting him a flintlock because it could have been used for both muzzleloader seasons in PA instead of just the early fall one.
And really, I would have preferred to go a bit more and get a Lyman or a T/C at least. A member on here offered me a nice Lyman Trade rifle at a good price, and a member on THR offered me a great deal on a new one. I much rather would have gone that route.
But my dad had a percussion CVA before and had to sell it with a bunch of other stuff to pay a bill and he's missed it ever since. And my brother was there with him and saw him eyeing one like he had before up, so he sneaked back in and put it on layaway.
It's way cheaper, but I'll still go half and make sure he's got the stuff to shoot it too. Gives me more time to save up and get him a really nice one if he really gets into muzzleloaders.

 

[tg]

"You can't keep me in the dark especially after the heat I've taken."

Don't close your eyes, drop yer breeches, bend over and back into the fire then belly ache about it getting to hot to suit ya.... :shake:

 

[ebiggs1]

I am sure he is going to love it. Especially when it is from you two boys. Dads like that kind of stuff, ya know.

 

[ebiggs1]

"You can't keep me in the dark especially after the heat I've taken."

Don't close your eyes, drop yer breeches, bend over and back into the fire then belly ache about it getting to hot to suit ya.... :shake:

I have a new motto: "Buy the cheapest manure you can find"

This is the response directed toward me. The only thing I mentioned was my TCs. So just how did I “back into the fire”? I don’t talk that way to others and I don’t expect it from others.

 

my poorly made cheap traditions flintlock has a life time warranty, whats a custom made flintlock have as far as warranty?

Do you really want a gun that needs a lifetime guarantee? It's kinda like the automobile salesman who is proud of the fact that the dealership he works for has 24 hour service facility. Do you really want to buy a car that needs 24 hour service?

Even on the best made product, parts will fail, it doesn't matter how well it was made or who made it (and you know it). It's nice to know that there are companies who stand by their products.

Try going back to a "custom" gun maker 5 years later and tell him that the lock broke and see what he does for you. Do you think he'll give you a new lock?

 

[lonehunter]

Boy, am i going to fan the flames with this, but, in my personal experience, i would take a cva barrel over a factory t/c barrel anyday. With that, some have had a great deal of success with t/c, i am not one of them, i have however had a great deal of success with cva, cant speak for lyman never shot one, but have heard a lot of good about them. I am sure your father wont care as long as he gets to enjoy the hobby with his sons, word of warning about the bobcat,(if synthetic stock) conicles kick like a stiff legged mule out of the one i own, i put a piece of steel in the rear of the stock, seemed to help a lot. Good luck and let us know how it shoots.
O.K. t/c fans, let it rip :surrender: :haha:

 

[bdhutier]

My kids have a perc bobcat they are learning on, and it's definitely not impressive to look at. I will say though, it's never mis-fired and shoots straight enough.

They strike me as a strictly utilitarian weapon, the AK-47 of muzzleloaders; cheap, ugly, and adequate, but gets the job done.

 

[hanshi]

ebiggs, you're gonna run into the rude types from time to time and I guess you know the resident ones here. They demand :bow: and feel you should be honored to receive their insults. Don't rise to the bait; ignore them and they will go away eventually.

I must fess up that I thoroughly enjoy stirring things up and messing with folks. My bad but there are worse vices. And when they are THAT defensive you know there are lurking feelings of, well, inadequacy. No, I don't know why. I'm always suspicious when anyone constantly belittles other builders and their guns and those shooters who like "production??" guns. Makes you wonder what they have to prove. If you're good, everyone will know it; but if you talk about how good you are and how other popular builders are not, makes you wonder.

Now I've never had experience with the GPR though I've wanted one for a good while. I have had very good service from several Traditions, CVA, Pedersoli, Euroarmes, H&A, etc. Some of them are known for crummy flint locks and that is a manure shoot. But that's the only fault-other than cost-I find with them.

Well, I have thick skin and I have no ego to bruise so I'm prepared for the cannon fire. It's like salting slugs and watching as they thrash wildly.

Okay, I've been a bad, bad, bad boy long enough and that's also my opinion of "production" guns. I don't fault anyone who likes them...I'm among that group. I'm not naughty all the time but, so help me, I do love to mess with folks. Hang in there, ebiggs.

 

[roundball]

You might want to double check that...I understood that effective this year of 2010, the "Flintlock Only" requirement goes away...you might want to check with the PA Wildlife Dept...in which case you could go the caplock route

Don't know where your gettin your info but I have heard nothing about any changes in the flint only late season.

Just from the occasional post commenting on that...which is why I suggested "double checking with the PA wildlife dept"

 

[ebiggs1]

Thanks

 

[rabjr]

I'm actually surprised they are still in business. CVA that is. I worked in a bait and tackle shop most of the 80's and what saw from this company was pure junk. We put up a dozen "Fronters" at 99 bucks a piece along side T/C's that were three times the price at the time. We sold all 12 just before hunting season and within two weeks had 9 come back, all with broken parts. The only kit gun I ever saw that was a CVA had it's bore bored off center.

I went through years of ****** off guys coming into the shop after buying a cheap gun to hunt with and all I could do was point at the T/C on the rack and say "for a little extra you could have gotten a better gun with life time warrenty."

My customs, so far all I've had to do besides work up a load is file the front sights and tap the rear sight on my smoothie to to get point of impact where I want it.

I don't put anyone down for shooting a cheap gun and by all means good luck with it but I've seen way to many strikes against them and would not myself shoot anything else but a T/C if I had too. Luckaly I don't have to. :v

 

[gizamo]

 

[John Wasmuth]

I gotta take exception to all the CVA bashing BS, yes BS. I have owned many of them, kit and complete and never had one fail, fall apart, not shoot straight, or blow apart. I have won plenty of matches and have killed to many deer and other big game with them to count. They built a fair product at a fair price. A lot of black powder shooters started out with them and only the ones with any class at all will admit it. Are custom guns any better? Dont know, dont have one. Do I want one, sure do and will have one some day, but for now I'll stick with my production guns that I know will put food on the table. I call the BS as it is :bull:, Just because it dosent cost a couple of house payments and two years tuition dosent mean it wont shoot.

 

[lonehunter]

I guess its a manure shoot as to if you get a good one or not!(regardless of make) One selling point to a custom rifle, the builder does not want junk leaving his shop. cuz his reputation is on the line with every gun that goes out the door. I own at this point all production guns, but have shot custom guns, and the difference is like night and day. some of the factory guns will shoot, but nothing beats the feel of a custom gun. Like everything else, you get what you pay for! :v

 

[lonehunter]

CVA
50 yards
benched
They will shoot!
But i own a t/c i would not stop and pick up if it fell out of the truck!
Not bashing T/C just bashing the one i own. It goes bang every time but cant hit a bull in the butt! :v

 

[John Wasmuth]

Lota people say it aint possible. Low cost traditional style side locks for the most part are well built, solid shooters. custom guns are great, works of art. But not all of us have the scratch to order one. Maybe some day after the kids college is paid for, goat prices sky rocket, etc.

 

[hanshi]

It has always amazed me how well these ("cheap"?) guns shoot. I owned and hunted with an old CVA a friend put together from a kit. It didn't look like much but that sucker would shoot! Killed deer good, too. I currently have two Traditions and have no desire to sell them. They've both earned their place in my rack.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

TC was no doubt overall a better gun than most production guns. A little heavier than need be. But never known for having good round ball rifling. very early CVA's had lousy locks. And the later CVA sidelocks were iffy. However, a CVA Mountain rifle was probably the best orund ball production gun ever made. Check the prices of used guns on the auction sites and see how high the CVA mountain rifles still are. I have a frontier rifle. It did have a minor problem with the set triggers which is why I got it dirt cheap. $35.00. One shim washer between the stock and the tang bolt fixed it. Great gun that taught many greenhorns about muzzleloading. Even better, I can switch from perc. to flint and it has double set triggers.

Traditions always seemed to be a slightly lesser quality CVA.

However, even traditions offers a superior round ball barrel compared to TC.

It took TC 30 years to realize and correct it's faulty lock geometry. and about for every 10 TC flinters sold, 5 have had to replace their frizzens, many more than once.

I have had the occasion to contact TC, Lyman, Traditions and CVA concerning muzzleloaders. (Never for warranty work however.) TC, Lyman and traditions never even responded. Around 1994, CVA not only responded and thanked me for my suggestion, but sent a ball starter as a thank you. Traditions has the ability to do so much better, and for some reason the management has their head up their butts.

Each production gun company has it's problems and advantages. The horrible manure is off the new market. A CVA bobcat is a good little percussion gun for anyone from 10 to 100. light weight easy to handle and capable of whitetail hunting. I would have opted for a used Frontier rifle with DST, sort of the same rifle but a bit better.

 

[rabjr]

I gotta take exception to all the CVA bashing BS, yes BS. I have owned many of them, kit and complete and never had one fail, fall apart, not shoot straight, or blow apart. I have won plenty of matches and have killed to many deer and other big game with them to count. They built a fair product at a fair price. A lot of black powder shooters started out with them and only the ones with any class at all will admit it. Are custom guns any better? Dont know, dont have one. Do I want one, sure do and will have one some day, but for now I'll stick with my production guns that I know will put food on the table. I call the BS as it is :bull:, Just because it dosent cost a couple of house payments and two years tuition dosent mean it wont shoot.

Lets get this straight, your calling me a lier for what I saw of CVA in the shop I worked at by calling it BS? Well your wrong.

And no I did not start out with a CVA, if I did I would admit it as ambarsing as it it would be. My first gun which got me started was a T/C Renegade because I wasn't stupid after seeing what I saw. The T/C was worth the extra money.

 

[shootemup]

I'm on both sides of this discussion. :surrender:

I've never been a fan of Traditions, and the CVA flintlocks I've handled left much to be desired (although I do think CVA percussion guns are quite serviceable hunting guns). I like the Lymans pretty well, although I've only had a couple, and them only briefly. I like Pedersoli flintlocks but don't care for their percussion locks. I also think the Dixie Tennessee rifles made by Miroku were top-notch. Didn't care for the Pietta's I've handled, but don't think of any of those were flintlocks.

In my mind, T/C has always made the best quality production guns. My .54 Renegade with the 1:66 twist barrel is exceptional. I also have two New Englanders and a Hawken. Obviously not all of those are flintlocks, but they're all great rifles.

Now, I don't consider any of those guns to be in the same class as a true custom piece, I'm just saying that there are lots of good muzzleloaders out there, and not all of them are customs.

My teenaged daughter drives a Jeep Liberty. By no means is that thing in the same class as a Land Rover or a Hummer. But it's a serviceable little SUV that does everything she needs it to do. Still, I'm fairly sure she would rather have the Land Rover. :grin:

I guess I can understand somebody who is used to that Land Rover thinking my daughter's Jeep is a cheap little rattle box. To some extent they would even be right.

I can also understand that somebody who builds and sells Land Rovers and truly understands how much better made it is than my daughter's Jeep, would think that anyone who would drive a Jeep Liberty is out of their mind.

Maybe that's why some of our builder friends are so quick to point out the inferior quality of some of the production guns?

:hatsoff:
Spot