Noticed it on the second look, way back close to the trigger guard.
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Inherited Rifle - What is it?
- Thread starter Fishman82
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I have some Chinese cavalry sabers circa 1930. Unlikely I will have an opportunity to try them out. You, however, can experience using that rifle without drawing blood.
Spillikins
.451
No one has mentioned it yet, but the stripes in the maple look artificial/painted/stained.
I know how some collectors feel about patina, but the entire thing is ridiculous. It is a way of doing things that perpetuates itself, these guys over here value the thing in patina condition, so I will value patina and it continues itself and it is senseless. A patina to me looks like an ignored treasure. A wonderful piece of equipment that has been allowed to degrade over time and develop a layer of schmutz and it is left there because some collectors in the Victorian era suddenly decided it was important.
It is a shame is what it is. Countless items that could be outstanding visual delights are kept in a state of eternal decay so some other collector no one will ever meet prioritizes it as a valuable thing.
If you like it's style or design , have a copy made. Best not to ruin a valuable antique rifle , to make it shoot , etc.
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Like the zippo with a bullet embedded in it, the faded tattoo of a pin up model gotten in Singapore during WWII, like a fish carved by your dad when he showed you how to whittle, when you got your first pocket knife as a child. The ruffed up stuffed animal that was your dog’s favorite toy, these things tell a story of the places they’ve been and the people they touched. While preference for storied items and their condition is fair whatever they are, it is no mistake that wear and patina have value for many people.
Personally, I say, it's your rifle and a family treasure. Do with it as you will. However, if you're planning to shoot it, be dang sure it is safe before you do so. With that said, I'm jealous. I'm Peanut Butter and Jealous. If you ever want to sell it, remember me. I have 1st dibs. Semper Fi. 
There is a big difference between conservation and restoration. I believe that @Fishman82's rifle is a candidate for conservation. The art of conservation will remove the dirt and grime, leaving the treasured patina of the rifle. Then it is time to evaluate the rifle to determine if it can be fired or treasured as part of the family's history.
Well one wouldn't leave a silver service discovered in a deceased relatives belongings tarnished. You'd polish it up real good and set it in a curio cabinet or actually use it when guests come over. Old paintings are restored all the time. We do not treasure the patina on a rare painting. Eventually the Docent will have restorers come in, remove years of schmutz and the painting becomes lively and vibrant. A dull old painting that was not very eye catching suddenly becomes a prized exhibit the guide is sure to bring the tour to see.
In certain cases, the presence of patina can make it challenging to study and authenticate an antique. Patina can obscure the underlying materials or techniques used, making it difficult to determine the guns origin, age, or other hidden information. Patina can also hide structural issues in a gun that may pop up as a serious issue later on.
It just seems so absolutely artificial to me and I suspect the first collector who declared patina important was lazy and just trying to weasel out of cleaning some artifact or collection of artifacts.
In certain cases, the presence of patina can make it challenging to study and authenticate an antique. Patina can obscure the underlying materials or techniques used, making it difficult to determine the guns origin, age, or other hidden information. Patina can also hide structural issues in a gun that may pop up as a serious issue later on.
It just seems so absolutely artificial to me and I suspect the first collector who declared patina important was lazy and just trying to weasel out of cleaning some artifact or collection of artifacts.
I'm not sure I would consider Patina "Decay".
Look at these two coins I have in my collection. Both are Morgan silver dollars from the 1880s the one on the left is pretty shiny, but on the right not so much.
Do you think I should get the silver polish out and go to work on it? On coins, it's called toning but it's just a patina really.
The toned coin is worth 3 times more than the shiny one just because of the toning.
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You forgot the pictures!?
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Oldwood beat me to what i was going to say. but i will anyway.
If it were mine i would build as close to an exact copy as i could. display them together.
If it were mine i would build as close to an exact copy as i could. display them together.
I did indeed...
Many people cannot tell the difference, particularly when it comes to guns.
Here is an antique Crescent wrench. It was originally blued and had the flat sides of the jaws sanded back bright. It acquired a "patina" all over after years of use and neglect:
But guess what was under all that decades-old "patina"? Strip off the oil and behold.....RED RUST!
Boil, card, and take the additional step of hot-water bluing and it's back to almost new:
The last step would not be considered conservation, but cleaning and stopping the active rust would be. Letting it continue to rot is unacceptable to me. On collectable, antique long guns, a very judicious conservation without any attempt to reset it to new would be my approach, but that means cleaning and preserving, not leaving 150 year old grime and active rust all over it nor does it mean a strip and refinish of wood and metal, either.
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Jim in Wisconsin
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I wonder if the person who built the gun or the original owner would be happy to see it rusty, dirty, and not working.
Clean it up and lose 50-75% of it's current value. However it's your gun not mine I don't have any say. But think about it, get a professional appraisal before doing anything.
That gun is in great shape for its age, I believe the lock pin and nut is a later repair not done originally.
That gun is in great shape for its age, I believe the lock pin and nut is a later repair not done originally.
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Please publish more detailed photos; both sides of butt, for-end, inlays etc. I agree it looks like a late Western Pennsylvania rifle. The lock was at one time flint but can't tell if has been on the rifle for it's entire life? If you can find a KRA member in your area I'm sure that they would help you. I respectably suggest that you do a little research before you do anything to the rifle.
user 34300
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The reason that antiques that retain the original finish are worth so much is because misguided people have ruined most examples over the years. They are very scarce. Scarce means money.
There is nothing wrong with conserving it. That entails stopping active rust and preserving the original finish. There are non destructive ways to do that. Mark Novak has lots of YouTube videos that explain it. The work is specialized and requires knowledge and experience.
Polishing it up, sanding the wood, and rebluing the metal is an abomination. The monetary value and historical value will be destroyed. If that is done it will not look like it was originally made anyway. It will look sad to anyone who knows what they are looking at.
The argument that it is my gun I can do what I want does not hold water. It is not your gun. It is an artifact of history that you have custody of for short period of time. Sure you can destroy it if you want. You can trade it for tickets at a gun buy back with the cops. Either way you would be stealing from future generations. When we encounter an artifact that still shows the work of a maker that has been dead for hundreds of years, we have a responsibility to preserve his legacy. It is a window to the past that can never be replaced.
IF you want to shoot a historically correct long rifle get a Kibler or a Chambers. Unless you know what you are doing oil it sparingly and leave it alone.
There is nothing wrong with conserving it. That entails stopping active rust and preserving the original finish. There are non destructive ways to do that. Mark Novak has lots of YouTube videos that explain it. The work is specialized and requires knowledge and experience.
Polishing it up, sanding the wood, and rebluing the metal is an abomination. The monetary value and historical value will be destroyed. If that is done it will not look like it was originally made anyway. It will look sad to anyone who knows what they are looking at.
The argument that it is my gun I can do what I want does not hold water. It is not your gun. It is an artifact of history that you have custody of for short period of time. Sure you can destroy it if you want. You can trade it for tickets at a gun buy back with the cops. Either way you would be stealing from future generations. When we encounter an artifact that still shows the work of a maker that has been dead for hundreds of years, we have a responsibility to preserve his legacy. It is a window to the past that can never be replaced.
IF you want to shoot a historically correct long rifle get a Kibler or a Chambers. Unless you know what you are doing oil it sparingly and leave it alone.
morehops52
50 Cal.
You need to define your goals as to what you want with this beautiful heirloom. The first thing to do is NOTHING until someone knowledgeable in antique firearms gets a look at it and gets you an informed opinion. You may want it to look nice and shiny and don't care if that severely devalues the rifle. Then again you may want to keep as much original as possible while still making it safely shootable. Only a professional can give you the best advice on clean up vs. value. Once patina or original finish is gone it's gone and ain't coming back. Congratulations on a fine piece of American rifle making!
