inline flint lock?

[Roy]

That is the third screw barrel pistol that I have made. (two were from kits)

 

There were many non typical types of ignition in the past which are very interesting, but these have nothing to do with the modern ML's which atre just modified centerfires, so it might be best to discuss the old types independently and not try and connect the dots to justify the new stuff.

You are correct. Every so often, someone posts a reference to an old "inline style" weapon and it starts the "in-lines are traditional" debate all over again.

Yes, there were some rare, inline type weapons, that never became popular, but they have nothing to do with the modern inline and they can not be used as an example of the modern in-line's "history". Today's inine is not an "historic" firearm. Even the term "inline" is 20th century.

The modern inline has no "traditional" history - period. Nobody is making replicas of traditional inline style weapons.

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Good Morning John Taylor,

Are you familiar with the Ten Ring Precision inlines as designed and built by Alex Hamiltom (used to be Blaine) here in San Antonio during the 1970's and 1980's?

The design was/is very simple with only a receiver and three other parts, sans trigger of course.

They are still very popular with Texas competition shooters, but were always fitted with barrels for a patched round ball.

Alex is a close friend, so I had the opportunity to see the manufacturing of these actions/rifles, and handguns up close and first hand.

He made some, not many, for hunting, but all were barrelled to shoot a patched round ball.

I was at Friendship in 1983 for the 50th Anniversery of the NMLRA when the big move was started to ban inline rifles only from competition. It was debated at length in an open forum.

Somewhat strange was that very few shooters from the regular firing line opposed the inlines in competition. The charge was led by the buckskinners and rendevous type from the primitive camp, who seldon, if ever, came down to shoot with us who were into serious accuracy shooting.

For those who have never been to the NMLRA NATIONAL MATCHES at Friendship, Indiana, there are two distint campground and groups of shooters.

The original campground and firing lines were developed and established after the NMLRA was organized in 1933. Over a period of time, the firing line was lengthened and divided into seperate ranges for Offhand Rifle, Handgun, Bench rest, Cross Sticks, Metallic Silhouette, and Shotgun.

A seperate, fenced with locked gate, campground, and shooting facilities were later added for a "primitive campground and shooting facilities".

This is the area in 1983 that was the target of a joint Federal/State raid for illegal possession, buying and trading of illegal contraband such as eagle feathers and endangered species furs.

Thirty-some odd arrest were made that morning. All were charged and prosecuted.

Now this is not a political statement or intended to "inflame" any of the "traditionist", but just a brief recollection of observed history.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

If you are not an NRA or NMLRA Member, why not? I am carring your load.

 

[Claude Mathis]

To repeat the rules...

The main focus of this site is "Traditional Muzzleloading"; The history of the people, weapons and battles, up to and including the American Civil War.

We do not discuss inline weapons.

For the purposes of this Forum, "inline weapons" are modern weapons made after the turn of the century.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Too bad, I thought my .22 "necked up" to .50 was kinda cool. :haha: No, really I get it.

 

[Toomuch_36]

There were many non typical types of ignition in the past which are very interesting, but these have nothing to do with the modern ML's which atre just modified centerfires, so it might be best to discuss the old types independently and not try and connect the dots to justify the new stuff.

As l0ong as we are on the topic of inovative fireqarms and ignitions that never realy cought on for one reason or another. You might want to check out the June and July 1967 issues of American Rifleman for a two part article entitled "The guns of Joseph Belden". There you will find a seven round, repeating, self priming, flint lock rifle with a detachable magazine as well as a similar four shot pistol. There is also a five round, fully automatic flint lock rifle. these are also from the same time period, the mid 1700s.

Toomuch
...........
Shoot Flint

 

There is also a five round, fully automatic flint lock rifle.

"Fully Automatic", as in, you hold the trigger in and it fires all five rounds in rapid succession?

Please do post a photo of this.

 

[Old Ironsights]

I'm amazed that the Girandoni military repeating air rifle never caught on. I mean, check this bit out:

Recent publication (Smith and Swick, 1997) of a small passage in a little known travel diary journal of a Thomas Rodney, who was a day visitor to Captain Meriwether Lewis while he was traveling down the Ohio River at Wheeling, Ohio in September of 1803, caused new thinking about the Lewis airgun. The passage reads:

“Visited Captain Lewess barge. He shewed us his air gun which fired 22 times at one charge. He shewed us the mode of charging her and then loaded with 12 balls which he intended to fire one at a time; but she by some means lost the whole charge of air at the first fire. He charged her again and then she fired twice. He then found the cause and in some measure prevented the airs escaping, and then she fired seven times; but when in perfect order she fires 22 times in a minute. All the balls are put at once into a short side barrel and are then droped into the chamber of the gun one at a time by moving a spring; and when the triger is pulled just so much air escapes out of the air bag which forms the britch of the gun as serves for one ball. It is a curious peice of workmanship not easily discribed and therefore I omit attempting it.”

Any airgun historian or student would immediately realize that this description could only apply to a Girandoni system repeating air rifle.

The Girandoni system was adopted, in great secrecy, as the Austrian military repeating air rifle (Hummelberger and Scharer, 1964/65). It has been recorded that the system was invented in 1780, but deliveries of these guns to the Austrian army did not begin until between 1787 and 1791. Hoff’s (1977) classic reference on antique airguns and Hummelberger and Scharer (1964/65) indicate that about 1500 Girandoni military airguns were produced and that finally they were retired from service to Olmütz in Bohemia in 1815.

Hmmm... 21 shot, .46 caliber, 200ftlbs +/-, one shot every 1-1/2 second... :shocked2:

Because of the sophisticated nature of the flat mainspring and the timed release mechanism, Baker and Currie (2002) suggest that the Girandoni system is capable of much greater power than air rifles of less advanced design (such as the Lukens air rifles). As of May 2003 they were only willing to indicate that this system could project a lead ball, of about one-half inch diameter, of about 210 grains to a muzzle velocity of at least 500 fps for about 117 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy. Colin Currie reported (personal communication May 18, 2003) that the Royal Armories of Leeds, England recently charged the Heiberger .433 caliber air rifle, a formerly single shot air rifle made about 1750 but converted to a 23 shot Girandoni-style repeating system[10], apparently in the early to mid-1800s, to about 800 lbs/sq. inch and achieved a muzzle velocity of over 900 fps with balls of 120.4 grains for a muzzle energy of 217 ft. lbs. He reported that 1500 strokes were needed to pump up the Heiberger”˜s buttstock reservoir to operating pressure after 20 shots had been fired from one charging/loading. ... The power levels discussed above were very potent for the period. However, foot pounds of energy do not tell the whole story. Few hunters today would venture after big game with the energy levels of the old big bore airguns or flintlocks, but those big lead balls, about a half-inch in diameter, have a special effect ”“ as does a deadly arrow with “only” fifty foot pounds of striking energy. One has to respect a gun capable of shattering a huge lead ball against a distant steel plate, especially when a typical Girandoni system gun could deliver about 20 of those heavy missiles within the minute and another 80 rather suddenly! (With practice, one can simultaneously load the gun with action of the left hand and cock it with the right hand - enabling aimed shots to be taken about every 1 1/2 seconds!). The simple great inertia and large diameter of those big lead balls also makes them far more dangerous than paper figures would suggest. Walter Hummelberger and Leo Scharer (1964) relate a great deal of the feedback from the Austrian military about the Girandoni repeating air rifles. While there was considerable complaint about their reliability, there does not seem to have been any complaint about their lethal effectiveness - they must have been of power similar to the flintlock Jaeger rifles of the period! And the fact that Larry Hannusch (personal communication, Nov. 27, 2002) indicates that he has now regularly used his Girandoni-system air rifle (a Lowentz, apparently with a less powerful mainspring) to take the huge whitetail deer of eastern America is simple and clear proof of the lethal power of these big bore airguns.

[url] http://www.beemans.net/lewis assault rifle.htm[/url]

Oh, how I want one of these.... :shocked2:

 

[John Taylor]

I have often thought of building an air rifle with a big bore but trying to figure the air chamber that needs to hold about 1,000 psi has been the biggest drawback. I thought of using a small OX cylinder and then the idea of using a drop of oil with the loaded ball would turn it in to a fire arm, diesel effect. I need to stop thinking for a while. The next flint lock I'm planing on building will be an under hammer. To many projects not enough time.

 

[John Taylor]

Can't talk about them new rifles. Idaho changed the law to read that it had to use a percussion cap and that it had to be exposed for the primitive hunt. Learned a few things while building these hunting rifles. I took 2" off the end of the barrel and shrunk it down a few thousanth of an inch and made a bullet sizer out of it. This ingraved the rifling on the bullet and made it just small enough to slide down the bore with ease. 2 of the rifles had a twist of 1 in 22". 1 of the 2 would put every shot on a paper plate at 200 yards. The other one went to Alaska and got a Caribou at 400 yards. All that I made were in 54 cal. Bullet weight for the 2 fast twist was around 550. They wouldn't tell me how much powder they were using. Probably a lot more than I recommended.

 

[Toomuch_36]

There is also a five round, fully automatic flint lock rifle.

"Fully Automatic", as in, you hold the trigger in and it fires all five rounds in rapid succession?

Please do post a photo of this.

First I must appologise for the typo. my fingers hit the wrong keys, the date of the mentioned issues is 1987 not '67.
Dale I am afraid posting a photo is beyond my grasp at the moment, but maybe I can explain it well enough.
The base firearm used was a fusile and the origional touch hole was plugged and a new one drilled a ways up the barrel and the lock moved accordingly. the loading was five loads stacked on top of each other (powder, ball, powder, ball ect.) with the first four balls having a hole bored through them. When fired the forward most load was ignited and would flash back through each succedeing ball untill all rounds had been fired.

Toomuch
..........
Shoot Flint

 

[Old Ironsights]

There is also a five round, fully automatic flint lock rifle.

"Fully Automatic", as in, you hold the trigger in and it fires all five rounds in rapid succession?

Please do post a photo of this.

First I must appologise for the typo. my fingers hit the wrong keys, the date of the mentioned issues is 1987 not '67.
Dale I am afraid posting a photo is beyond my grasp at the moment, but maybe I can explain it well enough.
The base firearm used was a fusile and the origional touch hole was plugged and a new one drilled a ways up the barrel and the lock moved accordingly. the loading was five loads stacked on top of each other (powder, ball, powder, ball ect.) with the first four balls having a hole bored through them. When fired the forward most load was ignited and would flash back through each succedeing ball untill all rounds had been fired.

Toomuch
..........
Shoot Flint

The modern incarnation of this system is called "Metalstorm" Google it sometime... :shocked2:

 

[Leonredbeard]

Dale,
AS in ONE pull of the trigger and the gonne keeps firing until it is empty. I saw Kit Ravensheer try to fire one of these. He couldn't quite get it loaded right and it would fire its total load so fast one could not hear any separation of shots.
God bless.
volatpluvia