INPUT Appreciated on Pihet Paris French Musket .69 V1837

[Hugosaid]

Hi all,

Anyone willing to giving their input on this musket? I am trying to gain knowledge about it as I am trying to liquidate for my parents estate. I am NOT selling it here, I am just trying to gain honest opinions as to what I have as I know NOTHING!!!! My local gunclub is trying to help me but this one is a little too old and different for them.

Here it is:

 

[OLUT]

Aside from having brass bands, this looks like a typical Model 1822 French musket. Pihet Brothers in Paris did indeed make them in the 1830's. Does it have MLE 1822 marked on the tang? Mine, with steel bands, was made in 1825 by Charleville

 

[Hugosaid]

OLUT,

My apologies, as I mentioned my knowledge is VERY limited. I think the answer to your question is NO, it is not marked MLE 1822. Here is what I think you are asking about. If I am incorrect please let me know.

Also, when you say "...aside from having brass bands..."...I am assuming that is not a good thing. Can you tell me what should be on it? Does this mean it is NOT original?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Brass bands tended to be a German or Spanish thing, the French favoring steel. We would need photos of other marks from the barrel and a closeup of the marks on the lock.

For a while, repros of French muskets were fitted with brass bands, in the 1970's, to simulate Spanish muskets, but the cock on the lock is wrong for one of those. Later versions of the "Spanish" musket repros were steel bands brass plated.
The ramrod in the photos appears a bit short...

However..., this IS Belgian... a Liege Proofing House mark on the barrel.

LD

 

[Acohill1]

Okay so my input:
It's long
It's brown

 

[OLUT]

Aside from having brass bands, this looks like a typical Model 1822 French musket. Pihet Brothers in Paris did indeed make them in the 1830's. Does it have MLE 1822 marked on the tang? Mine, with steel bands, was made in 1825 by Charleville

Thanks for adding the tang photo. I lived in Belgium for several years and this thread brought back many memories. Belgium became an independent country in 1830 after being part of several different countries (quite involved). After their independence, they made their version of the French Model 1822 flintlock. You have a gun that I am not acquainted with. The stock, with the characteristic round French stamping, and the French lock are married to a barrel & tang from a Belgian Fusil d' infanterie No.1 musket. Here is a side by side photo of the respective tangs. (My Belgian version has a Liege marked lock).

 

[Hugosaid]

Okay so my input:
It's long
It's brown

Lol....I think this is my favorite post of ALL time! Thank you!

 

[Hugosaid]

Thank you ALL for the information!! All the brass bands are marked with the caliber (I think). Here are a couple more pictures. I guess I am really trying to determine if this is "original" or if someone has messed with it and if so how. If I don't have the correct pictures to make a good determination please let me know.

 

[OLUT]

I'm speculating, as I would need to physically inspect the gun to give a more informed opinion. But, I personally would not buy this gun as an original without considerable further verification. The brass bands and steel buttplate do correspond to a French navy version of the Model 1822, but there are too many "unique" features in your gun. For example, the front sight is mounted on the back of the band instead of the front (see photo of an original), the stock is very light wood compared to all the originals that I've seen, the ramrod to way too short, etc. And the biggest challenge is the stamped "69" on parts; the French adopted the metric system in 1795 and would never have stamped the caliber on their guns.

 

[Hugosaid]

Brass bands tended to be a German or Spanish thing, the French favoring steel. We would need photos of other marks from the barrel and a closeup of the marks on the lock.

For a while, repros of French muskets were fitted with brass bands, in the 1970's, to simulate Spanish muskets, but the cock on the lock is wrong for one of those. Later versions of the "Spanish" musket repros were steel bands brass plated.
The ramrod in the photos appears a bit short...

However..., this IS Belgian... a Liege Proofing House mark on the barrel.

View attachment 311348

LD

Thank you!! I appreciate the information!

 

[Hugosaid]

I'm speculating, as I would need to physically inspect the gun to give a more informed opinion. But, I personally would not buy this gun as an original without considerable further verification. The brass bands and steel buttplate do correspond to a French navy version of the Model 1822, but there are too many "unique" features in your gun. For example, the front sight is mounted on the back of the band instead of the front (see photo of an original), the stock is very light wood compared to all the originals that I've seen, the ramrod to way too short, etc. And the biggest challenge is the stamped "69" on parts; the French adopted the metric system in 1795 and would never have stamped the caliber on their guns.View attachment 311421

Thank you!! For some reason my Dad thought this was original. I will have to go find his original notes and see what they say. Out of several hundred firearms he collected he only had 3 rifles of this era and they were not his expertise. His rifle does not look like your picture so that is a PROBLEM! {I guess you guys call them Flintlocks? Sorry I don't know my terminology.) Thank you!!! I really appreciate the information!

Hugosaid