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Intermediate kits?

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A person who wants to learn can buy a good quality barrel, lock, triggers, etc., and a 2x4 and practice inletting until he has it right and then buy a good stock and make a real rifle.

A friend of mine practiced inleting a lock into blocks of wood until he had it down. He ended up building really nice rifles.

I think I'd rather do that than spend a couple hundred bucks on a cheap rifle as a prelude to building a good gun. But that's me.
 
Black Hand said:
Then we are back to:
Black Hand said:
Do you want to challenge yourself or do you want to "snap" something together that takes little more work than driving a few screws, sanding, staining and finishing...

Yep, hence my dilemma. Want something between cheap snapping together and dropping a G plusminus to do more work and take more risk. No problem dropping the Gs when I feel more confident fixing mistakes.
 
Snakebite said:
A person who wants to learn can buy a good quality barrel, lock, triggers, etc., and a 2x4 and practice inletting until he has it right and then buy a good stock and make a real rifle.

Oooh! Now, there's an idea! Taking apart the existing Traditions parts to whomp away at 2x4 scraps is pennies' of investment.
 
mahkagari said:
Or...how about $3-400 on a poor quality kit that I can beat up for practice....? ;)

If learning skills and practice is your goal, why buy a poor quality kit? Get a quality lock and inlet it into scrap wood as many times as it takes to be able to do it really well. When your inletting skills are good, you still have a good lock for the "real" gun. Get a junk barrel & cut a dozen dovetails and set twice as many lugs into it. Get your skill level up before messing up usable parts to just have to replace them.
 
Coot said:
Get a junk barrel & cut a dozen dovetails and set twice as many lugs into it. Get your skill level up before messing up usable parts to just have to replace them.

Love this. Where do I get a junk barrel? Is there a used spare parts section on Armslist or something?
 
mahkagari said:
... what are some nifty mods to make to Traditions-type kits to practice skills?
It depends on where your going with practicing your skills.

Most of the nifty mods you can make to a Traditions kit involve some sanding/shaping, inletting decorations, maybe installing a patchbox....

In other words, not a lot of skills and things you will need to know to really make a rifle from one of the collection of raw materials bought from places like TOTW, Pecatonica River....

You will learn very little about doing the layout for drilling screw and pin holes, figuring out where to install parts, drilling and tapping the holes for the screws, fitting buttplates and ramrod thimbles...

If you already own a muzzleloading rifle and you want to learn these things, the most inexpensive way I know of is for you to restock your existing rifle.

If you know the size across the barrel flats you can check out the pre-carved stocks at Pecatonica River. Look for one that comes with a similar distance across the barrel flats as the barrel you have.
You can choose a half stock or full stock style. If it is a full stock, you will end up cutting off some of the length to match your barrel.

Looking thru the Pecatonica River web catalog, I see they charge about $47 to pre-carve the wood and to cut the barrel channel. You'll have to add another $75 for the halfstock length wood or $125 for a fullstock length of wood.

That will make the cost of the stock about $125 or $175 if you choose the least expensive Curly Maple #1 (CM#1).

Now, this is the important part of doing this.

You will have to call Pecatonica River and tell them you do NOT want them to cut the lock mortise or the Trigger mortise.
You only want them to cut the barrel channel and drill the ramrod hole.

I have bought many stocks from them with this exact requirement when I wanted to use a different lock than the ones they normally supply with their kits.
When I receive the stock, it is solid wood where the lock mortise would have been and the slot for the trigger is left uncut.

Now, your ready to learn about building one of these guns.

You will have to do some work to get your barrel to easily slip into the barrel channel (they always fit VERY tightly when you first get them).

You will now use your existing lock to locate and layout the mortise for it.
You will have to cut the mortise and all of the internal clearances, drill the sear arm hole, use the existing locks threaded holes to back drill the clearance holes for the lock screw(s), install the lock, figure out where the trigger needs to be based on the locks sear arm position, inlay the trigger, inlay the trigger guard...... locate and install the butt plate, side plate, ramrod thimbles, .......
(You get my drift here?)

About the only thing you won't be learning is how to thread holes.

By the way, because you still have the parts and stock for your original rifle, you can refer to it to see how the factory did things. That can help you figure out what to do on your new stock.

Yes. You will end up with a rifle that has some faults. Yes, someone else won't want to pay you much for a restocked gun made using inexpensive parts so it may be hard to sell BUT, you won't want to sell it when it's done.

It will be your "FIRST" rifle, made by you, with your own hands and I'm betting you will want to keep it until the day you die.

After you've finished this rifle, you will have a very good understanding of what you will need to know to tackle one of the high priced "kits". :thumbsup:

Here's a link to Pecatonica Rivers catalog showing wood prices. While your there, click on the "Stocks and Components" button to see all of the stocks they offer.
http://www.longrifles-pr.com/stockprices.shtml

If you don't have a muzzleloading rifle now, you can often find a used one for very reasonable prices.
No, their not the best but where else can you get a barrel, lock, trigger and all of the rest of the hardware for $120-$175?
 
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Snakebite said:
A person who wants to learn can buy a good quality barrel, lock, triggers, etc., and a 2x4 and practice inletting until he has it right and then buy a good stock and make a real rifle.

A friend of mine practiced inleting a lock into blocks of wood until he had it down. He ended up building really nice rifles.

I think I'd rather do that than spend a couple hundred bucks on a cheap rifle as a prelude to building a good gun. But that's me.
True - but inletting parts into a fir 2x4 is nothing like inletting parts into maple. And even with hundreds of hours of practice, you WILL screw something up...
 
Instead of a junk barrel go to the hardware store and get a steel square stock and practice there. as far as 2x4 I think you need to practice on hardwood. call dunlap and get a $20 half stock.
 
Try this...
Tomahawk kit
0497big.jpg

or maybe this
Link ttrack horns
book-r18cph_0.jpg

or these
LinkMBS pistol stocks
STPSPWORLS.jpg

or these
MBS Euro Pistol
34201.jpg
 
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