Intrest in a Gardner Bullet mold?

[noonanda]

Hey all, I am getting a gardner bullet mold group buy going on the NOE bullet mold forums. Is there anyone who would be interested in this Iconic Confederate bullet?

 

[Stubert]

Never heard of it. Any pictures or a description?

 

[noonanda]

The confederates designed it so that the paper for the powder was held in place by the bullet itself. It was cast with a flange that was folded down onto the paper completing the cartridge

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...aw2JyyEAUFD9Ss7vehQJx-SI&ust=1552912000196627

 

[Stantheman86]

Is it for .58 muzzleloading rifles? I don't get the whole paper cartridge part

 

[noonanda]

Yes it is a .58 Cal bullet. The paper held the gunpowder as a "complete" cartridge. You would tear the paper, pour the powder, then ram the bullet. here is a link to some great info on it

http://www.baymediapro.com/gardner_machine.pdf

 

[gemmer]

Sort of the same concept as cartridges for revolvers.

 

[Stantheman86]

I'd buy a mold for that , for when I start casting.

Also would like a mold for the "wiper" bullet

 

[noonanda]

Sort of the same concept as cartridges for revolvers.

yep, both sides had paper cartridges for rifles, it was how they were made that was different

 

[noonanda]

I'd buy a mold for that , for when I start casting.

Also would like a mold for the "wiper" bullet

Sounds like you are talking about the "Williams Cleaner". I dont know if there is a mold made for them,

 

[Stantheman86]

That's it, that way purists and people who want to be 100% historically accurate can make Williams Cleaner bullets and make cartridges to add them to their cartridge box for range day.

 

[noonanda]

That's it, that way purists and people who want to be 100% historically accurate can make Williams Cleaner bullets and make cartridges to add them to their cartridge box for range day.

The only way I could see you doing this would probably to make a Type 1 cleaner that had the lead stud on the base that the zinc scrapper was attached to. I could see this easily getting made, really would just need to modify for example a Lyman die with a removable base plug. Modify the plug. But then getting the zinc washers made would be the only other real hurdle.

 

[Stantheman86]

I'm sure a local machine shop could make the zinc washers

 

[RedFeather]

I'm not sure but I think the stud on the wiper is also zinc. Might have to look at some I have.

 

[reddog]

I'm sure a local machine shop could make the zinc washers

At 50-65 dollars per hour, or more, not to mention it isn't all that easy to make little thin washers.
You would need a die and punch arrangement to do this with.

Source material. A 12"x12"x.027 sheet of EN988 zinc runs about 24.00
Design tooling.
T&E tooling design
If tooling works, produce parts.
Parts will have to sell by thousands to make it worth setting machinery up for production.
Hand or loading press tooling could be made for end user to produce their own, similar to gas check tools.
Time, money to get started will be borne by customer. One off parts and tools can be very expensive to make.

 

[Stantheman86]

Wasnt there also a wiper bullet that had a cotton patch attached to it?

 

[rmark]

The Gardener bullets flange was pressed around the base of a paper tube using a foot operated die, the tube was then filled with powder and tied off. I've read of some reproduction Gardener press being made. I wonder if a push thru die similar to what Lee makes would work?

 

[noonanda]

The Gardener bullets flange was pressed around the base of a paper tube using a foot operated die, the tube was then filled with powder and tied off. I've read of some reproduction Gardener press being made. I wonder if a push thru die similar to what Lee makes would work?

Unfortunately, the company cannot make the flanged/unformed version, so it looks like it would just be the "formed bullet. this is what I sent them. They cannot make the one on the right

 

[rmark]

So it will reproduce the bullet after the paper tube was removed for loading - what diameter bullet are you aiming for?

 

[noonanda]

So it will reproduce the bullet after the paper tube was removed for loading - what diameter bullet are you aiming for?

Yes sir, thats what we are looking at now. He has an original garnder as well as the repro to make it the same diameter as the originals