paulvallandigham
Passed On
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- Jan 9, 2006
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Grains is a measure in weight, no in volume. A jar of marbles will weigh one weight, while the jar filled with sand will weigh much heavier, as sand is denser than are marbles.
The same difference exists between volumes of Black powder, and Pyrodex. Pyrodex is less dense, altho its chemically equal by VOLUME. It will weigh less than a comparable volume load of black powder, but it produces similar velocities to BP.
I know it can be confusing. Understand that people can't carry around powder scales in the field. We can carry volume measures. Since BP is a low grade "explosive"-- certainly compared to any smokeless powder---- so that small differences in volume does not affect velocity of the ball or bullet very much, a volume measurer is used to mete out a certain volume of powder that "weighs" a given weight, if put on a powder scale.
Not all Black Powders are the same, as granular size also affects how dense the various types and brands of BP will weigh. So, for instance, an equal volume of FFFg Goex powder will weigh slightly more than a similar volume of FFg powder; a similar volume of Fg powder will weigh less than the FFg volume load. Because more dense powders generate more Gas when burned, you can generate more velocity( temperature, and pressure) using FFFg than a comparable volume load of FFg, generating more muzzle velocity.
More muzzle velocity will often change the POI of a particular caliber ball, so that the shooter can often use LESS FFFg powder to get the same velocity and the same POI with his ball compared to the amount of FFg powder he needs to achieve the same MV, and POI from the same barrel.
If for instance, you are loading 70 grains of powder for each shot, you will get 100 shots from a pound of lb.=7000 grains to the lb. The same volume of pyrodex will throw 56 grains of that powder, compared to the 70 grains of BP. One pound of Pyrodex, at 56 grains per shot, will allow you to shoot 125 shots per pound of powder. Whether that constitutes a cash savings to you depends on what you pay for BP compared to the cost of that pyrodex.
And, just to confuse you a bit more, since FFFg powder burns hotter and gives faster MVs, you can achieve the same results as a load of FFg powder, by using less FFFg powder. How much less depends on the caliber, and the velocity you seek to achieve. But, using FFFg will give you more shots per pound of powder, and since both grades of BP cost you the same, you have a small savings in cost per round using FFFg powder.
For example: if your gun will shoot accurately using 70 grains of FFg Goex, and you find that FFFg produces 10% more velocity than does the FFg powder, you can lower your powder charge( volume) that 10%. 10% of 70 = 7 grains. 70 - 7 = 63 grains. 7000 divided by 63 = 111 shots, compared to 100 shots of 70 grains.
If you buy Goex powder for $15.00 per pound, 100 shots will cost you $.15 per shot fired. At 111 shots, each shot will cost you only $.135 That is a savings of about 1.5 cents per shot, or $1.665 per pound of powder used.
Of course, if you burn up all that powder there is nothing "saved", but your cost of shooting each round is certainly less than if you use FFg powder, in this example.
Going back to this weigh vs. volume business,I have used both fixed and adjustable powder "measures", as well as verified my volume measures by using a powder scale designed to WEIGH powder in grains. In the field, and at the range, I use my adjustable powder measure, now. Wit4h the fixed measure I made by drilling out a piece of antler, I checked its Volume with both my Adjustable Powder measure, and then with my Grain powder scale.
The most accurate measure of weigh is done with that grain powder scale. I have an " Old-fashioned " balance beam scale, rather than the more modern, digital scales. Both work well if you understand how to use them.
When I first bought my adjustable powder measure, I first weighed out a pre-determined weight of black powder, then opened the adjustable measure so that its entire volume was available to me. Then I poured the measured powder into the adjustable measure's tube, and slowly raise the adjustment stem up until the powder reached the top of the adj. powder measure. I locked the measure down, poured out the powder, and then read the scale on the stem of the measure. It did not agree exactly with the exact weight of the powder, based on my grain scale. However, it was close- off just a few grains.
I tested the measure a dozen times to see what difference I caused my changing how I poured the powder into the adj. powder measure, recording each " throw", so that I had a better idea of how to achieve some consistency using the adjustable measure. Once I figured out how to get consistent powder measures with that adjustable powder measure, I marked the scale on the stem to throw that predetermined charge, based on my grain scale, and then took the adjustable measure out into the field and never looked back. I later tested that same adjustable measure with both FFFg and FFg powders to learn how different the actual weight was for the same volume of powder. When I switched from using FFFg powder in a rifle, to using FFg in a new rifle, and my shotgun, I re-marked my stem scale on the adjustable powder measure to reflect the correct loads for each gun, and have used FFg powder fairly consistently since.
I may have to buy a new, dedicated adjustable powder measure for a new gun, that will need to shoot FFFg powder in it, as it will be only .36 caliber. Its not that big an expense, and after using the one for the past 30 years or more, I think its time I spend a bit more money for a new powder measure. :grin:
Beware: Once you find a load that works in a particular rifle, you will make either a fixed measure, or use that adjustable measure without any need to change the setting that if someone asks you what powder charge you use, you may find yourself having to go back to that measure to figure out exactly what powder charge you are using! All this stuff about weight vs. volume will have been forgotten. BTDT.
The same difference exists between volumes of Black powder, and Pyrodex. Pyrodex is less dense, altho its chemically equal by VOLUME. It will weigh less than a comparable volume load of black powder, but it produces similar velocities to BP.
I know it can be confusing. Understand that people can't carry around powder scales in the field. We can carry volume measures. Since BP is a low grade "explosive"-- certainly compared to any smokeless powder---- so that small differences in volume does not affect velocity of the ball or bullet very much, a volume measurer is used to mete out a certain volume of powder that "weighs" a given weight, if put on a powder scale.
Not all Black Powders are the same, as granular size also affects how dense the various types and brands of BP will weigh. So, for instance, an equal volume of FFFg Goex powder will weigh slightly more than a similar volume of FFg powder; a similar volume of Fg powder will weigh less than the FFg volume load. Because more dense powders generate more Gas when burned, you can generate more velocity( temperature, and pressure) using FFFg than a comparable volume load of FFg, generating more muzzle velocity.
More muzzle velocity will often change the POI of a particular caliber ball, so that the shooter can often use LESS FFFg powder to get the same velocity and the same POI with his ball compared to the amount of FFg powder he needs to achieve the same MV, and POI from the same barrel.
If for instance, you are loading 70 grains of powder for each shot, you will get 100 shots from a pound of lb.=7000 grains to the lb. The same volume of pyrodex will throw 56 grains of that powder, compared to the 70 grains of BP. One pound of Pyrodex, at 56 grains per shot, will allow you to shoot 125 shots per pound of powder. Whether that constitutes a cash savings to you depends on what you pay for BP compared to the cost of that pyrodex.
And, just to confuse you a bit more, since FFFg powder burns hotter and gives faster MVs, you can achieve the same results as a load of FFg powder, by using less FFFg powder. How much less depends on the caliber, and the velocity you seek to achieve. But, using FFFg will give you more shots per pound of powder, and since both grades of BP cost you the same, you have a small savings in cost per round using FFFg powder.
For example: if your gun will shoot accurately using 70 grains of FFg Goex, and you find that FFFg produces 10% more velocity than does the FFg powder, you can lower your powder charge( volume) that 10%. 10% of 70 = 7 grains. 70 - 7 = 63 grains. 7000 divided by 63 = 111 shots, compared to 100 shots of 70 grains.
If you buy Goex powder for $15.00 per pound, 100 shots will cost you $.15 per shot fired. At 111 shots, each shot will cost you only $.135 That is a savings of about 1.5 cents per shot, or $1.665 per pound of powder used.
Of course, if you burn up all that powder there is nothing "saved", but your cost of shooting each round is certainly less than if you use FFg powder, in this example.
Going back to this weigh vs. volume business,I have used both fixed and adjustable powder "measures", as well as verified my volume measures by using a powder scale designed to WEIGH powder in grains. In the field, and at the range, I use my adjustable powder measure, now. Wit4h the fixed measure I made by drilling out a piece of antler, I checked its Volume with both my Adjustable Powder measure, and then with my Grain powder scale.
The most accurate measure of weigh is done with that grain powder scale. I have an " Old-fashioned " balance beam scale, rather than the more modern, digital scales. Both work well if you understand how to use them.
When I first bought my adjustable powder measure, I first weighed out a pre-determined weight of black powder, then opened the adjustable measure so that its entire volume was available to me. Then I poured the measured powder into the adjustable measure's tube, and slowly raise the adjustment stem up until the powder reached the top of the adj. powder measure. I locked the measure down, poured out the powder, and then read the scale on the stem of the measure. It did not agree exactly with the exact weight of the powder, based on my grain scale. However, it was close- off just a few grains.
I tested the measure a dozen times to see what difference I caused my changing how I poured the powder into the adj. powder measure, recording each " throw", so that I had a better idea of how to achieve some consistency using the adjustable measure. Once I figured out how to get consistent powder measures with that adjustable powder measure, I marked the scale on the stem to throw that predetermined charge, based on my grain scale, and then took the adjustable measure out into the field and never looked back. I later tested that same adjustable measure with both FFFg and FFg powders to learn how different the actual weight was for the same volume of powder. When I switched from using FFFg powder in a rifle, to using FFg in a new rifle, and my shotgun, I re-marked my stem scale on the adjustable powder measure to reflect the correct loads for each gun, and have used FFg powder fairly consistently since.
I may have to buy a new, dedicated adjustable powder measure for a new gun, that will need to shoot FFFg powder in it, as it will be only .36 caliber. Its not that big an expense, and after using the one for the past 30 years or more, I think its time I spend a bit more money for a new powder measure. :grin:
Beware: Once you find a load that works in a particular rifle, you will make either a fixed measure, or use that adjustable measure without any need to change the setting that if someone asks you what powder charge you use, you may find yourself having to go back to that measure to figure out exactly what powder charge you are using! All this stuff about weight vs. volume will have been forgotten. BTDT.
