Is A muzzleloader A firearm?

[hereatcharlies]

Hi! I am very new to this sight, in fact this is my first question.
My question is: Is A muzzleloader A firearm or not?
You need A FFL to sell A cartridge rifle but not A muzzleloader, But now there are muzzleloader/firearms that require A FFL.
Could somebody please give me A little education!
Thank-you! wolverinetrapper

 

[Old Salt]

The answer depends on your point of view.

If you are asking about the safety or general use aspect then I say yes a ML is a firearm.

As soon as you add a lawyer to the conversation the waters are muddied.

Salt

 

[Hawkeye]

It depends on where you live. Some states have much more restrictive laws than the Feds. According to the Feds, muzzleloading guns made before 1898 or reproductions of muzzleloading guns made before 1898 are generally not considered firearms under Federal law.

 

[MikeChapin]

Depends on the state laws where you live. A couple of years ago there was a case of a convicted felon that had a black powder revolver. As a convicted felon he could not own a firearm with out petitioning the state for a return of his rights. He thought a BP revolver did not fall under that law. The Wyoming Supreme court ruled that under existing state law it was indeed a firearm. The legislature is now changing the law to allow BP arms to be separate from smokeless stuff.

In some states BP muzzleloader fall outside the firearms restrictions but some don't.

 

[MSW]

while i would agree that as a practical matter, a muzzle loader is a 'gun,' let's not rush to blame lawyers for our troubles..

it was the (assorted and malignant) legislatures which didn't have the knowledge, backbone, or even requisite understanding to write clear definitions, and now we turn to attorneys to try to make sense of what amounts to just plain badly drafted legislation.

who's to blame? 'the fault, dear brutus, lies not in our stars but in ourselves...' after all, we put 'em in office.

just one guy's opinion.

 

[Le Grand]

Let's face it, the lawmakers have made laws on subjects they know nothing about.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The modern zip guns, that use shotgun primers,and smokeless powders are now being considered Firearms by most state authorities. They are not replicas of guns made before 1898. You need to go through an FFL dealer to buy them.

In some states, all MLers are considered "firearms", restricted by STATE LAW as to who can buy and sell them. Consult a local dealer, or attorney, at last resort- preferably someone who actually knows something about guns! :shocked2: --- To find out what YOUR state law requires. :hmm: If you forgot your civics lessons in School, you live in a country that has a Federalist System of government. The Federal Government is given Limited authority under the Federal Constitution. The 50 individual states have General authority over their citizens, so that you can see many different "definitions" in state laws, depending on the state. ( Hey, law students have to study something while they are in school for 3 years! :shocked2: )

 

[omarick1948]

Paul, your sounding just like an Attorney!.......Oooooops! That's right, you are! :surrender:

 

[Len Graves]

I agree with the answers that precede mine. I might add that here in Michigan there are a whole- nother set of law/rules. If you plan on hunting with your smoke pole. You have specific rules for carry (vehicle transport), season,caliber Etc. Good idea to read your hunting regs. to see if your state has additional laws. Whatever you do Use it! It's the only cure for the disease.

 

[NJStricker]

To muddy the waters further, there are inline black powder rifles such as those made by TC and CVA that have interchangeable barrels. So, you can switch between BP and centerfire. In those cases, the receiver is that part that is regulated.

 

[jderrick]

Sorry to throw another lawyer in here... sounds like at least in North Carolina someone's thought of inlines that can be switched over to centerfire....

"Article 53A....

§ 14”‘409.11. "Antique firearm" defined.

(a) The term "antique firearm" means any of the following:

(1) Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured on or before 1898.

(2) Any replica of any firearm described in subdivision (1) of this subsection if the replica is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

(3) Any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition.

(b) For purposes of this section, the term "antique firearm" shall not include any weapon which:

(1) Incorporates a firearm frame or receiver.

(2) Is converted into a muzzle loading weapon.

(3) Is a muzzle loading weapon that can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof. (1969, c. 101, s. 2; 2006”‘259, s. 7(a).)"

 

[hereatcharlies]

Hi! thank-you! for this point.I do no that the reason A FFL is required for these muzzleloarders is because on these types you can change the muzzleloading barrel over to A centerfire barrel.Which makes them A muzzleloader/firearm.
Wolverinetrapper.

 

[PreglerD]

Just for interest: Here over the pond in Germany ML are considered firearms, but all singleshot ML which are original or are reproduced from originals before 1871 (the term is handled very liberal by german authorities) are free to get, built, ship for persons of 18 or older. That means the modern i**** which have no model before 1871 are firearms where a permission is needed to get and own them. Flinters are even allowed to carry loaded without permission.
For bp you need a permit here, but this is easy to get. Make a saftey and handling course and be a member of a club or a hunter and you get the bp permission!
Concerning with trad. ML and bp the german gunlaw is very liberal. :grin:

Regards :hatsoff:

Kirrmeister

 

[tv_racin_fan]

Is it a firearm? Well gee does it use gunpwder to propell a projectile?

The short answer is it is indeed a firearm. The govt on the other hand may not consider it a firearm for some purposes and may consider it a firearm for others. That would depend on the particular state and city one lives in. It is not considered a firearm for the purposes of having to go thru an FFL dealer to transfer or for shipping, again depending on state/city.

 

[Black Hand]

Hi! I am very new to this sight, in fact this is my first question.
My question is: Is A muzzleloader A firearm or not?
You need A FFL to sell A cartridge rifle but not A muzzleloader, But now there are muzzleloader/firearms that require A FFL.
Could somebody please give me A little education!
Thank-you! wolverinetrapper

According to the Federal Government and the ATF, a muzzleloader IS NOT a firearm. Either way, check the local bureaucracy.

 

[Dphar]

Hi! I am very new to this sight, in fact this is my first question.
My question is: Is A muzzleloader A firearm or not?
You need A FFL to sell A cartridge rifle but not A muzzleloader, But now there are muzzleloader/firearms that require A FFL.
Could somebody please give me A little education!
Thank-you! wolverinetrapper

It depends on the definition written into the law.
By DEFINITION for the PURPOSES of the Feds GCA 1968 ML firearms are not firearms.
In the small town where I live in Montana a BB gun is a firearm, BY DEFINITION. Maybe even a wrist rocket. Would have to look again. Basically if it ejects a projectile its a firearm.

The feds are not the only ones that define what a firearm is for legal purposes.
So while you may not be in violation of the onerous Federal statute you may well be in violation of some state or local law.

Dan