Been working on sighting in my TC Hawken. Accuracy is good with 70gr of 3F Triple 7. But the patches are looking pretty poor. Burned through and very frayed. Patches are pre-lube pillow ticking. Thinking the cause may be the increased burn rate of the 3F. Good assumption or ?
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Is FFFG the Cause
- Thread starter Sage1
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Primary culprit is likely your patch thickness/ball diameter combination, or lube. All three have to work together.
If accuracy is good, the fraying patches are not a HUGE concern. The correct combination will likely pull that flyer into the group.
ADK Bigfoot
If accuracy is good, the fraying patches are not a HUGE concern. The correct combination will likely pull that flyer into the group.
ADK Bigfoot
@Sage1, I expect to see some fraying of the patches around the edges. I am not a fan of prelubricated patches. Often these have been sitting on shelves and the lubricant will accelerate the deterioration of the patches. You have two patches that appear to be in reasonable as shot configuration. Then there are two that are shredded as if the patch material was not able to hold the gasses of the combustion of the powder charge and were too thin to provide a suitable gas seal. If you are shooting a new rifle, the crown may be cutting the prelubed patches. The hole at the circumference of the ball is indicative of a sharp crown cutting patches of poor integrity. New rifles with sharp edges on the lands will cut patches with the result being a shredded patch. Often with the sharp land condition there will be pin holes in the patch where the lands cut the patch.
My suggestion is smaller diameter balls, thicker patches to be lubricated before loading and maybe reducing the powder charge.
These patches are shown from the top as the side at next to the ignited charge and the second set are next to the ball. My patches are the ever so notorious #40 cotton drill cloth from JoAnn's Fabrics, lubricated just before cutting at the muzzle.
My suggestion is smaller diameter balls, thicker patches to be lubricated before loading and maybe reducing the powder charge.
These patches are shown from the top as the side at next to the ignited charge and the second set are next to the ball. My patches are the ever so notorious #40 cotton drill cloth from JoAnn's Fabrics, lubricated just before cutting at the muzzle.
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Thanks, I’m shooting a .490 ball and I think the patches are .015. But could be .018.
Sam squanch
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Try a buffer between the powder charge and ball, like cream of wheat or a felt wad.
Here we call it “powdered wheat” because “creamed” doesn’t make any sense.
I never heard it called ‘powdered’ wheat. And there is a long list of manufacturers to contact about changing or correcting their packaging from calling it ‘creamed’ to ‘powdered’ wheat.
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Use Maltomeal, lest there be confusion…
I never heard it called ‘powdered’ wheat. And there is a long list of manufacturers to contact about changing or correcting their packaging from calling it ‘creamed’ to ‘powdered’ wheat.View attachment 312935
Sir,
I understand. But “creamed” to me means it is mixed with an agent such as milk or cream. Such as “creamed icing” made with creamed cheese and sugar.
The wheat is so-called “creamed wheat” isn’t actually creamed at all. It’s simply powdered.
My $0.02
Sir,
I understand. But “creamed” to me means it is mixed with an agent such as milk or cream. Such as “creamed icing” made with creamed cheese and sugar.
The wheat is so-called “creamed wheat” isn’t actually creamed at all. It’s simply powdered.
My $0.02
Sam squanch
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Not really a powder. More like granulated. It works for me!
rafterob
62 Cal.
Triple 7 is a hot burning powder, so that may be your main cause for burnt patches. too thin of a patch or load combination is the other main cause for patch burning, add lube to that equation. When done shooting the pre-lubed patches, start using material that you lube as you shoot.
White corn meal. Smells good, too!
ADK Bigfoot
ADK Bigfoot
Probably sound stupid but do you just pour it down the barrel over the powder?
Banjoman
Eager to learn and willing to teach.
I agree with Stykbow and Dave. It looks your biggest group might be 1 1/2”? If so, why worry what the patches look like? Looks like you have a good combination.
Sam squanch
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Yes, powder, pour in an amount about half of your powder charge, then ball on top of that.
When I worked up the best load after building my rifle, I found that using 30 grains of Cream of Wheat as a filler between the black powder & patched ball DEFINITELY resulted in a tighter group. I don't really care what the patch looks like after firing as long as it isn't on fire or smoldering (I don't want to start a forest fire).
To my eyes I would look at your lube. It looks like your patches are starving for more lube or a different type of lube. Your patch thickness and ball diameter sounds about right. Might try increasing the patch thickness to 0.023". If it does not require pounding the ball into the muzzle.
longcruise
70 Cal.
Time for my devils deciple role.
If your patches are cut, burned through or shredded there's only a few possible causes; tearing at the Muzzle when loading, getting sliced by sharp edges when loading or shooting, an under sized patch or a patch too thin.
It's NOT a lube problem. When your bore, muzzle and patch size are right you can shoot without lube and your patches will not be damaged.
Fillers. Over powder wads, etc might help but they are just band aides. When the muzzle, bore and patch are right you will be able to shoot max charges without wrecked patches. Shooting max charges may not be your goal but it is a test of gun condition and patching. Thereafter you need not worry about that aspect of your loading and can play with the other variables.
Feeling cranky today
If your patches are cut, burned through or shredded there's only a few possible causes; tearing at the Muzzle when loading, getting sliced by sharp edges when loading or shooting, an under sized patch or a patch too thin.
It's NOT a lube problem. When your bore, muzzle and patch size are right you can shoot without lube and your patches will not be damaged.
Fillers. Over powder wads, etc might help but they are just band aides. When the muzzle, bore and patch are right you will be able to shoot max charges without wrecked patches. Shooting max charges may not be your goal but it is a test of gun condition and patching. Thereafter you need not worry about that aspect of your loading and can play with the other variables.
Feeling cranky today
