Issue with casting minie ball

[Columbus]

Recently picked up an Armi-Jager Zouave from another member, nice gun but it won't take a standard .58 minie. I'd ordered a Lee Traditional minie mold from DGW and find it's not dropping .575 500gr. They're .577-.578 and none are lighter than 520gr. I needed to size to .574 for this gun and running these bullets through the sizer pretty much destroys the grease grooves. I've never shot minies; how important is grease in those grooves? Can I fill the base or just wipe on as much as I can to what's left of the grooves? I complained to Lee, got a prompt response that said .578 from their .575 mold was within their tolerances.

 

[ord sgt]

No need to put grease in the base. Grease the rings only. I dip my minies in a mixture of crisco, bees wax and castor oil and then push through a sizing die. That scrapes away the excess lube. That works for me. Your results may vary.

 

[Columbus]

No need to put grease in the base. Grease the rings only. I dip my minies in a mixture of crisco, bees wax and castor oil and then push through a sizing die. That scrapes away the excess lube. That works for me. Your results may vary.

At .574 I'm taking off .004 and that is most of the rings, not much there to grease, that's my issue.

 

[appalichian hunter]

The confederates used minies without grease rings. So I would speculate that the bases were greased. Just a thought.

 

[ord sgt]

Some lube is better than none. When I load the first few rounds, just the weight of the rammmer will push the minie down the barrel. Then just a light tamping with the rammer is all that is needed. Cap and fire.

 

[nkbj]

Are you filling the lube grooves full before sizing?

 

[Columbus]

Are you filling the lube grooves full before sizing?

dip lube then size.

 

[dave951]

I complained to Lee, got a prompt response that said .578 from their .575 mold was within their tolerances.

Nope, that's normal for a mold to drop at a bit different than listed.

it won't take a standard .58 minie.

Sorry, no such thing. Minies are all over the map and vary cuz guns vary. You'll have to size something.

find it's not dropping .575 500gr.

How did you arrive at your gun needing a .574? Did you measure with a plug gauge?

I needed to size to .574 for this gun and running these bullets through the sizer pretty much destroys the grease grooves.

In my competition Parker Hale, I shoot a RCBS Hogdon that drops out of the mold at .580+ and I size to .576. That's over 5 thousands so that's not too much.

I've never shot minies; how important is grease in those grooves? Can I fill the base or just wipe on as much as I can to what's left of the grooves?

Lube is very important in a minie as is what you use. Best to use a natural base, example, I use 50/50 beeswax/lard with a touch of lanolin. Melt and dip the base only. Do NOT fill the base to start out with. The vast majority of muskets don't respond favorably to this.

But hey, what do I know about shooting minies?

 

[Columbus]

How did you arrive at your gun needing a .574? Did you measure with a plug gauge?

I TOOK ONE OF THE MINIES STRAIGHT FROM THE MOLD, DROVE IT INTO THE BORE NOSE FIRST THEN MEASURED IT WHEN I PULLED IT OUT. .574 IS THE SMALLEST DIE I COULD FIND.


In my competition Parker Hale, I shoot a RCBS Hogdon that drops out of the mold at .580+ and I size to .576. That's over 5 thousands so that's not too much.

HOW DOES THAT EFFECT THE GREASE GROOVES?

Lube is very important in a minie as is what you use. Best to use a natural base, example, I use 50/50 beeswax/lard with a touch of lanolin. Melt and dip the base only. Do NOT fill the base to start out with. The vast majority of muskets don't respond favorably to this.

I DIPPED UP TO THE LAST (UPPER) GROOVE --- BEESWAX, CRISCO AND A BIT OF OLIVE OIL.

 

[bang]

I too have a Zouave. I use a Lee mold in .575. it too casts a tad large, maybe +.001 at most. I size them just enough to barely scrap it. It still takes very small amount of thumb pressure to start it and rams easy.
Once sized I melt a bit of premixed mixture of 80% wax and 20% veg oil in a shallow pan at just melting temp. Using needle nose pliers I dip the mini in it and it leaves a nice coat on it. When loaded it scraps off the excess but maintains enough lube. They also work in the Buffalo Hunter, but then it's just a short Zouave.
Every mold casts different. You might try lowering the lead temp until you cast a consistent size you like. Lead fills more when real hot.
I only give a thumbs up for the Lee mold because it's the only one I have used. Of the 25 or so I have none have given me problems.
I like the Lee because they do a basic machine cut then high pressure press the halves on a steel mandrel. IMO it's better than all machined. The .578 mini when sized does the same as yours.
If experimenting with lead temp doesn't produce you might see if some one near you has a Lee .575 and get a few of them and see if they work better.

 

[jdw276]

Would a couple of coats of mold release agent rather than smoking the mold reduce the size of the bullet? Not sure how thick that stuff is. But you do have the issu of how much lead is outside the lube grooves.

 

[andy52]

First off I've never cast any mini's so bear with me. I've cast thousands of centerfire bullets and was thinking you could cast and size the mini's and then coat them with liquid alox like I do regular bullets.

 

[dave951]

First off I've never cast any mini's so bear with me. I've cast thousands of centerfire bullets and was thinking you could cast and size the mini's and then coat them with liquid alox like I do regular bullets.

Alox is a huge NO NO with minies. It doesn't play nice with black powder fouling and that's the entire reason for the grooves. Stick with natural stuff like beeswax/lard and dip lube the grooves. I shoot literally thousands each year and if Alox worked for accuracy purposes, I'd be there.

 

[JamesT]

The confederates used minies without grease rings. So I would speculate that the bases were greased. Just a thought.

You are correct. The difference was the British Pritchett bullet they used were way undersized compared to the bore and used a paper sabot in the cartridge eliminating the need for rings. It loaded much better when the bore was fouled. One advantage they provided.
James

 

[Johnnyntrain]

Recently picked up an Armi-Jager Zouave from another member, nice gun but it won't take a standard .58 minie. I'd ordered a Lee Traditional minie mold from DGW and find it's not dropping .575 500gr. They're .577-.578 and none are lighter than 520gr. I needed to size to .574 for this gun and running these bullets through the sizer pretty much destroys the grease grooves. I've never shot minies; how important is grease in those grooves? Can I fill the base or just wipe on as much as I can to what's left of the grooves? I complained to Lee, got a prompt response that said .578 from their .575 mold was within their tolerances.

Apparently they aren't grease grooves anyway, designed for better aerodynamics, the grease is an added benefit. So you can still lube it, you may find sizing that much will make the dkirt thin and uneven, that requires trimming.

 

[johnfrommd]

OP, I suggest you try a different method of slugging your bore. Here is a method utilizing Brownells Cerrosafe casting metal that I used for years in my business.

First clean the bore as good as you can then lightly oil the first few inches. Next wad up some cotton fabric so you can push it about two inches into the bore, make sure it is tight. Get a bore brush that is smaller than the bore you want to measure and put it on a pistol length rod. You will be holding the brush in the bore with the rod when you pour the Cerrosafe. After 30 minutes it will shrink and you can pull it out. After an hour you can measure it. It can be remelted and used indefinitely. I still have a couple of ounces I got from Bob Brownell many years ago.

Enjoy,

John


Here are the rest of the General Instructions.

How to Use Cerrosafe for Chamber Casting
The basic ingredient of Cerrosafe is bismuth. Bismuth is a heavy, coarse, crystalline metal which expands when it solidifies, up to 3.3% of its volume. When bismuth is alloyed with other metals, such as lead, tin, cadmium and indium, this expansion is modified according to the relative percentages of bismuth and other components present. As a general rule, bismuth alloys of approximately 50% bismuth exhibit little change of volume during solidification. Alloys containing more than this tend to expand during solidification and those containing less tend to shrink during solidification.
What all this means for the gunsmith is that you can make chamber castings using only Cerrosafe and a few, simple hand tools. To make a chamber casting, first clean and degrease the chamber. Use a tight-fitting, cotton patch that’s wrapped around a bore mop or brush to plug the bore just ahead of the throat. I usually leave the cleaning rod attached to the plug until it’s time to remove the plug. Melt the entire bar of Cerrosafe in a heatproof container that you can easily pour the hot Cerrosafe out of. You can use a propane torch or heat over a hot plate or the burner of a stove. Cerrosafe melts easily at 158°-195° F. While the casting metal is still liquid, stir very well, skim off the dross, and pour your chamber. The real trick with Cerrosafe is not to overheat it. If you heat the solid slowly, and keep it within the required temperature range, you shouldn’t get any dross.
Note the time the casting was poured. The casting will take only a very short time to solidify, usually within a minute. Wait 30 minutes and then remove the plug from the bore. Turn the muzzle upward and the casting will fall from the chamber. At 30 minutes after initial solidification, Cerrosafe shrinks slightly, so removal is very easy. Allow the new casting to cool thoroughly then measure the casting exactly one hour from the time it was cast. The casting will give you an exact measurement of the chamber. Cerrosafe casting metal can be used over and over. Remelt the entire amount back together and pour the Cerrosafe into a small mold of the appropriate size. Always melt the entire Cerrosafe ingot to make a chamber casting. For best results, never cut off, or use, just a part of the ingot.

 

[dave951]

Best way to measure a bore in a minie ball gun is with plug gauges. Just checking at the muzzle might give a false reading

 

[ohio ramrod]

I make my own sizing dies that "cut" the mini's to size rather than compress them. This gives me better size and groves than squeasing them to size. I would offer to make you a set but I am recovering from back surgery and won't be in the shop for a couple of months.

 

[Columbus]

I make my own sizing dies that "cut" the mini's to size rather than compress them. This gives me better size and groves than squeasing them to size. I would offer to make you a set but I am recovering from back surgery and won't be in the shop for a couple of months.

Would like to hear from you when you get better.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Will do, my new email is: oldbuckskinner@ gmail.com