Issues with Parker hale P53 enfield ignition

[Buckskinquin]

Find someone with or buy an endoscope. Then you can see what is going on in the powder chamber. They’re not that expensive.

 

[dave951]

My Parker Hale load-
42g 3f Swiss
RWS caps
Beeswax/Coconut oil
Moose Hogdon
Yes, that's a 5 shot group. First went high, rest 1/2 right of center This is my current competition load. I don't wipe between shots and I go an entire 5 event match without having to do anything to the bore.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

Since owning this rifle I have put roughly 100 rounds through it. I haven’t been able to get more than 5 usually, and at the most 10 shots before the cap ignites, but the powder doesn’t. At times I will add a few grains under the nipple, and other times I will just place a second cap after a quick pick of the hole. Im including a few pictures of what it looks like when I take the nipple off after a misfire. It looks like caked up debris, sometimes red ( I also occasionally see little red specks near the muzzle after firing and I’m not sure what they are either) but mostly black in color. The gun is cleaned thoroughly after each use, and isn’t left with any large amounts of oil/solvent in the breech or under the nipple.this seems like an odd amount of buildup for just five shots. I’ve used two kinds of caps, cci, and scheutzen. The scheutzen seems to ignite more but still suffers from this issue. The gun does not have a patent breech and has been cleaned with all the proper tools and shows no sign of any buildup/blockage prior to each new range trip. I bought a new stainless nipple from ToTW originally as I figured it would be the best place to start after talking with a friend about it.
I’m shooting 60 grains of FFg
With a beeswax/oil lubed .57 minie ball

My most recent trip to the range was all scheutzen caps, with the same issues every 3-5 shots. I’m stuck here, so any advice is greatly appreciated.

Are you cleaning between shots? Wet patch followed by dry patch, at least every 3 shots or so. Then, fire a "cleaning cap" with no powder or load to blow out any obstruction you may have pushed down into the flash channel.

 

[Siringo]

I thought Parker Hales do have a patent breech.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/bri...roblem-with-parker-hale-whitworth-t26340.html

Really interesting info.

 

[Frod733]

Here is some additional info i ran across. I find this an interesting discussion and just trying to garner the truth. I wonder if Euroarms copied the breeching system from Parker Hale when they took over? I would think so, else they would have to redesign entirely. If so, then there seems to be a reduced diameter to some degree in the "patent breech" which may cause ignition problems.

https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthread.php/9245-Euroarms-breech-help

 

[dave951]

Are you cleaning between shots? Wet patch followed by dry patch, at least every 3 shots or so. Then, fire a "cleaning cap" with no powder or load to blow out any obstruction you may have pushed down into the flash channel.

That's for round ball. We're discussing minies. Get it right with Minies and wiping is not needed

 

[maillemaker]

My bet is you are building up fouling on the breech face. Over time, it will get thicker and thicker until it grows past the touch hole. It is difficult to get the breech face clean with mops, patches, or brushes.

The best tool is this a breech face scraper:
https://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=SA124
To clean my Enfields (I have Pedersoli P158 and Euroarms P53 with Whitacre barrel), I unship the barrel and remove the nipple, and put the breech end of the barrel into my utility sink with enough water to cover the end of the barrel. I just use warm water. I don't feel there is any benefit to using super hot water.

I start using a nylon scrub brush to scrub the nipple and snail. Then I remove the nipple and use a dental pick to remove the hard fouling from the snail and down in the threaded nipple hole.

Next I use a brass bristle brush and some dish soap. I scrub the barrel a dozen or so times. Then I use the breech scraper. Then I use a patch and a pumping action to blast the fire channel clear.

Then I flush the barrel with clean water a few times.

Then I dry the bore with a couple of dry patches, and then blast all the nooks and crannies and the rear sight dry using compressed air.

CCI caps are weak. They got sued several years ago for cap fragments hurting someone and so they weakened their caps. They will usually work OK with guns with straight-in fire channels (like the Enfield) but do not work reliably with guns with multi-angle channels (like a 1861 Springfield or a Sharps). Sheutzen caps are pretty good, except they are made of steel which means they do not deform onto the nipple as well as brass ones. RWS Dynamite Nobel are the best but have not been available for some time.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

That's for round ball. We're discussing minies. Get it right with Minies and wiping is not needed

Oops! Not enough coffee yet! Thanks for straightening me out!

 

[Frod733]

FWIW: Many year ago i bought an original CW musket. For some reason, I decided to take the breech plug out. What I found was a solid blockage of the bore at the breech. At first I thought it might be a loaded round. Turns out it was a carbon disk about the thickness of a quarter, hard as metal. For whatever reason over the years, the gun was evidently not cleaned well enough. Don't know how long it took to build this up, but on a smaller scale, especially with a reduced diameter breech, it could occur and hinder ignition. I have shot a few Pedersoli's and the patent breech was problematic at times.

 

[maillemaker]

FWIW: Many year ago i bought an original CW musket. For some reason, I decided to take the breech plug out. What I found was a solid blockage of the bore at the breech. At first I thought it might be a loaded round. Turns out it was a carbon disk about the thickness of a quarter, hard as metal. For whatever reason over the years, the gun was evidently not cleaned well enough. Don't know how long it took to build this up, but on a smaller scale, especially with a reduced diameter breech, it could occur and hinder ignition. I have shot a few Pedersoli's and the patent breech was problematic at times.

Note not all Pedersoli guns have a patent breech. The Enfield does not, for example.

I shoot in N-SSA competition. I also got the coke disk buildup on my musket as I was forgoing the breech scraper as part of the cleaning regimen. I figured the pumping action would do the trick. It didn't and I ended up going back to breech scraping as part of the cleaning process.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Note not all Pedersoli guns have a patent breech. The Enfield does not, for example.

I shoot in N-SSA competition. I also got the coke disk buildup on my musket as I was forgoing the breech scraper as part of the cleaning regimen. I figured the pumping action would do the trick. It didn't and I ended up going back to breech scraping as part of the cleaning process.

That's really interesting and heard similar stories butt when I had two Parker Hale enfields I never had to scrape the breech.

I did though use boiled water! Oh and no mineral oil during storage. I wonder if there was a link!

 

[fgd135]

I thought Parker Hales do have a patent breech.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/bri...roblem-with-parker-hale-whitworth-t26340.html

Only the Volunteer and Whitworth have patent breeches; both are .451" caliber ml. The P53/P58/P61 do not.

 

[Siringo]

I recently purchased a used Euroarms volunteer. This thread is very timely. While this rifle has the tang, bolster and barrel configuration, it does not have the so called patent breech. The flash hole goes directly into the barrel just ahead of the “flat” breech face. My observation is the rear of the barrel must be threaded and screwed into the bolster. Then the flash hole is drilled. Then the tang/breech face is fitted. I have run a camera down the bore to verify that does not have the patent breech.

 

[ord sgt]

Before you put any powder into the barrel place any fired at least two caps on an empty barrel and point the firearm in a safe direction. That will blow out any residual crud from the flash channel. That will insure a first-time ignition. It is standard procedure for N-SSA and a good practice for all caplock rifles and smoothbores.