It ain't looking good

[pepperbelly]

I took the Pedersoli 1777 Charleville out this afternoon to try again.
The .010" muslin fabric I bought for patches worked great. That was the good news.
I had several problems with the prime charge in the pan going off without setting off the main charge- flash in the pan. I had several other instances of the flint not throwing enough spark to set off the pan charge. I think shooting more will solve these problems.

If that isn't bad enough I am still having a lot of trouble getting used to not having a rear sight. I had 2 rounds go very low and another slightly low. The shots were aligned vertically- no shots to the left or right of the centerline of the target. I can't seem to get used to the look of no rear sight though.
If I can't get used to it I will be putting this musket up for trade for a flintlock rifle.

Is the flash in the pan probably easy to solve? It was very frustrating loading and having to try several times before it would go off. I picked the vent hole before the shots but it didn't seem to make any difference.
I was using FFFg for the main and prime charge. I know from reading here that flintlocks are more reliable than this, but today was very frustrating.

Jim

 

[Frank/Pa]

What diameter is your touch hole? You may have to open it up some.

 

[pepperbelly]

I will go out and measure it in a few minutes. I read some old posts that mention Pedersoli having a reputation for this problem. I'll post after measuring if iI can find a drill bit that fits.

Jim

 

[davy]

1.Spark may be better & hotter, if the flint wedge is up or down also ..Check both ways.
2.Also the lock may simply need to be tuned,
3.The springs checked for proper snap.
4.Frizzen hardness can be a an issue.
5.The touch hole should be I think at least 1/16 Some are larger sometimes) .. so check that.
6. Many here use 3f for pan prime .. so that should be ok I guess. :thumbsup:

I have a Pedersoli Frontier rifle that I had to fine tune this way before it would fire reliably .. I think most are like that. I was lucky in having expert help on hand! Just take your time and do it right!

I am no expert but there are others here that are and may correct me! :hatsoff:

Davy

 

[pepperbelly]

Davy, thanks. I am not looking for experts so much as someone who has been there and done that.
I measured the vent holt as best as I could. I don't have a drill bit that fits, but the paper clip I used for a vent pick measured .040" and the smallest drill bit I have- 1/16" measured .060", so I think .050" may be very close. The paper clip is loose and the drill bit didn't even start into the hole.
This does not have a vent liner as far as I can tell.
The musket is basically new. The springs seem to have a lot of snap.
The flint is bevel up, and almost or barely touches the frizzen at half-cock.

BTW, the trigger pull is so heavy I almost got a cramp in my trigger finger.

The lack of windage deviation surprised me. The shots were almost perfectly aligned vertically. The distance from the bullseye is due to me not having figured out how to place my cheek to get what sight pisture I can.

Jim

 

[Rebel]

Drill your vent hole out to 1/16" and try that. Find a reference point on the barrel, (use a piece of masking tape if you need to) so that you know where to hold your head in realtionship to where you want the ball to go. Follow through, follow through, and follow through. Keep the sight on the target until the gun actually fires.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Jim: Use the 1/16" drill bit to open the vent hole at least that much. Then try it to see what improvement you have.

As to the trigger pull, that is obviously not contributing to accuracy. You may need to have someone work on the trigger.

This is posted elsewhere on the forum. Its an article on tuning single trigger military style rifles and muskets.
[url] http://www.nwtskirmisher.com/useful-locks.shtml[/url]

I think its worthwhile to read, if for no other reason than to help you understand what may be wrong with your trigger.

 

[Rob Dinwiddie]

Several other items to consider that may be easy to fix or at least understand before lock tuning and such. How much humidity was in the air when you were shooting? Was any moisture condensing on the frizzen or flint face? Were you wiping the residue from the flint underside before priming? A hunk of your muslin works great for that. Was the flint good and sharp? Did the flint face come to rest in the closed position immediately over the priming charge? Was the flint really tight in the hammer jaws? Were you priming with too much powder? These are the things I check first when firing is erratic. Then frizzen hardness and spring tension. I would by all means open the touch hole as suggested but then I would bet it might be a flint or powder problem. I've even noticed much difference in how fast different brands of powder collect humidity and become flash pots or won't fire at all. The larger the priming powder the hotter the spark needed to set it off but the longer it takes for water to corrupt it.

Best wishes,
Capn D

 

[ord sgt]

If your Charleville was made like mine, the touchhole was drilled into the barrel with no liner. The hole was very low on the barrel in relation to the pan. I took the barrel to a machine shop that had a milling machine. They redrilled the hole, moving it up and large enough to put a 1/4x28 touchhole liner. That solved my problem with ignition.
Also, I bought a replacement percussion lock from Pedersoli. I got a drum and nipple so I can switch from flint to cap in a matter of minutes if I want.

 

[bingo1952]

If a paper clip that measures .040 goes and a 1/16" drill won't the flash hole size is down in the wire gauge drill sizes. Opening to 1/16" should help a bit.

 

[Elnathan]

Drill out the touchhole to 1/16" to start with. Even with a White Lightening liner I had to drill my rifle's touchhole out to .070 before it would work well - .08" make a difference!

Without a touchhole liner, with a thick-walled musket barrel, you may have to drill the touchhole out to a rather large diameter. Some time back, I was sent some information regarding touchhole sizes in antique weapons, as well as what various gunsmiths today use. Since my correspondent had qualms about quoting without permission on a public forum, I will respect his scruples and refrain from quoting the entirety. However, here is some relevant information-

Three unused original trade guns: 3/32, 5/32, 1/8". This averages out to about 1/8." Two London-made pieces had touchholes .062-.070, but these likely had toucholes.

Recommendations from contemporary smiths tended to range from 1/16" to about 5/64". 5/64" or a hair smaller seems popular, with one smith using 3/32" for calibers in the 60s-70s range. Smaller touchholes are popular with benchrest target shooters because gas leakage is more consistent, but I don't think it would be an issue with a musket.

You might also want to contact Chris Immel, who postes here under the handle "Stophel," for advise as I understand he uses a straight touchhole on his rifles these days.

Second, it would be worthwhile tune the lock some. Make sure the inside of the lockplate is perfectly flat, for starters, and that everything is well polished. Assemble it without the springs and make sure that nothing is binding, and that the springs aren't dragging against the lockplate, etc. You also might want to check the angle when the frizzen pops open - I can't tell you what it should be, but no doubt others on the forum could if you asked on Builder's Bench - as well as the hardness of the frizzen.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I have owned three cap lock Pedersoli smooth bores and all the nipples had to be opened so it comes as no surprise to me that the flash hole may be to tight on yours from them. Other guns I have seen aint as tight as my Peders were. :hatsoff:

 

[Bryanbrown]

May I suggest you try 2f before other modifications? Military muskets seem to play better with 2f.


Bryan K. Brown
Hesse Kassel Jaeger Korps[url] www.jaegerkorps.org[/url][url] www.gunsmithy.com[/url]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Alle künst ist umsunst wenn ein Engle auf dem Zundlocke brünst.

 

[Many Klatch]

Pepperbelly, my Pedersoli Bess has a really big touch hole, a little shy of 1/8". It goes off everytime.

If you are getting stringing at 25 yards then you are doing really good for a first time musket shooter. At least you have one axis solved. As soon as you figure out your vertical hole you will be shooting with the rest of the smoothbore shooters.

Many Klatch

 

[pepperbelly]

Several other items to consider that may be easy to fix or at least understand before lock tuning and such. How much humidity was in the air when you were shooting? Was any moisture condensing on the frizzen or flint face? Were you wiping the residue from the flint underside before priming? A hunk of your muslin works great for that. Was the flint good and sharp? Did the flint face come to rest in the closed position immediately over the priming charge? Was the flint really tight in the hammer jaws? Were you priming with too much powder? These are the things I check first when firing is erratic. Then frizzen hardness and spring tension. I would by all means open the touch hole as suggested but then I would bet it might be a flint or powder problem. I've even noticed much difference in how fast different brands of powder collect humidity and become flash pots or won't fire at all. The larger the priming powder the hotter the spark needed to set it off but the longer it takes for water to corrupt it.

Best wishes,
Capn D

No, I didn't wipe the pan or the flint. I didn't know to do that. I would brush out some of the residue from the pan.
I have no idea if I was using too much orime. I very well may have. I have a prime charger that throws a very small amount of powder. I got tired of pushing in that plunger over and over so I started priming with my flask.
The flint was a new Tom Fuller. I got it tight. The flint is held in with lead, not leather, if that makes a difference.
It wasn't really humid, at least for Fort Worth, but it wasn't dry either. There wasn't any condensation that afternoon.
I have read that I need to bump the powder over after charging the bore. I also may not have put the powder in the right place in the pan.
I think the problems probably all me and how I primed. The vent hole might be a little small, but it does go off.

I really have to find someone who knows this stuff to go with me.

Jim

 

[Croppy Boy]

I bought a Pedersoli Mortimer a couple of years ago, it has a vent liner installed. When the gun first came, the vent was tiny and first day out was similar to yours. I opened the vent to 1/16" and cut a small cone on the outside with a counter sink bit, this improved things greatly. The cone on the vent helps channel the flame from the pan more directly into the vent. Be careful not to cone it too much or the bottom of the cone will go below the bottom of the pan.
I also found that the frizzen didn't spark too well and was quite hard on flints, I had the lock tuned and the frizzen hardened and that took care of that.
When you these few things sorted out, I'm sure you'll have many hours of enjoyment with your gun.

 

[Rob Dinwiddie]

Hi again,

This might sound stupid but I thought I'd mention it since you seem to have a good vertical string for a new musket shooter. When I get a ridiculous trigger pull, and it's someone else's gun or I don't have time to fix it I choke up on the stock a bit and shoot with the joint between the first and second pad of my trigger finger. Avoid your finger tip pad altogether and use the joint. This greatly increases my firing strength and gives me a much lighter perceived trigger pull weight. Remember follow through. You should make a serious attempt to hold the weapon on target through the shot (so that it would still be in your sights after firing. I know that is basically impossible with a musket but the fraction of a second you gain by trying to follow through is enough to prevent the slow ball exiting high as the weapon recoils. With a musket it increases my accuracy. Don't do this 1st finger joint thing with a pistol or you'll pull shots to the right.

Best,
Capn D

 

[pepperbelly]

I am getting a lot of good info from all ya'll- thanks!
Capn I'll try that finger trick with the trigger. I do know what doing that with a pistol will do. I shoot NRA bullseye pistol matches. Unless I have my finger in exactly the right position I can move my groups right or left. It is very easy to see when shooting slow fire at 50 yards.

Jim

 

[rkmeyer]

A number 2 center drill works very well for coning your vent hole. It is much less likely to go to deep and the angle is right in my opinion. I have found a .078 hole works great.
Dusty