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Mr. Vallandigham,
I really don't think that is it either. I have a 1964 Model 94, my first deer rifle, BTW. And my wife's step-mother has a very old one. I don't know exactly the year but it's old. I haven't disassembled her's but I don't see any difference in the internals. I know they made changes like rebounding hammer and such and they cheapened the material the guns were made out of but mechanicals?
I think it boils down to the market for these types of guns is simply too small to make such a large investment.
 
All these insights have their merits and bases but I think we are missing an important part. The gun community as a whole is large but the blackpowder community is still 'them bunch o' weird hillbillies n' reenactors'. :idunno:
We as a group/community need to get blackpowder in ANY form out there for people to see. I have shot high powered for years, competed own medals etc. but when I went to the 'dark side' WOW, talk about people giving you the look. (you know, the wow, what's wrong with him, look)
Ideas for expanding our community is what is needed since many manufacturers have started lines for the 'inline' group, if they will do that then they will start/restart a traditional line IF there is a desire for them.

I am trying to expand the blackpowder here in Indiana but not sure how to get the word out. Hard to put out a large sign saying 'REPENT, BLACPOWDER Is NEAR'. :rotf:

Anyway, that is my 2p worth. :yakyak:

Cheers, DonK
 
I think the marketing techniques of the gun industry have made single shot, historical rifles undesirable. The focus of gun marketing today is on selling tactical, self-defense firearms to people who will most likely shoot a family member when they mistake them for an intruder.

I seldom see an advertisement in a gun magazine that extols the virtue and fun of making one, very accurate shot at either a bulls eye, or a deer. As long as gun manufacturers keep customers fantasizing about mowing down bad guys with their semi-auto black rifles...American made BP guns will be hard to find.
 
lotta truth in that ! what makes those black plastic guns so desirable is beyond me! nothing like the feel of wood
 
Lot of good responses to the issue. However, not mentioned is the new Federal health care law. I recently attended a seminar on the implementation of it. The new law will impact American companies with expenses and bureaucratic regulation like nothing ever experienced before. I predict American manufacturers will outsource their production in a stampede. Don't expect much new from American manufacturing. Not their fault. I am surprised, and pleased, that many custom builders seem to be holding their prices to an affordable level. Good for them. I hope they can earn a living doing that and stay in business.
 
High quality guns are still available imported from Italy if you know where to look. Some years ago I ordered a US M1841 .54 "Mississippi" rifle from Jarnigans. The price was about 60% the cost of the same gun from DGW. It was marked "Euroarms of America". To say I was impressed by the quality and attention to detail would be an understatement. I'd never seen this kind of workmanship in any imported rifle. Performance was flawless and accuracy rivaled anything I'd previously fired. For some years I also owned a Rogers & Spencer c&b revolver from Euroarms that was a cut above most modern revolvers in workmanship and accuracy. With luck, access to quality OTC guns can help take up the slack for some time to come.
 
If you had to shoot a bad guy to get him undercontrol and stop him from committing crimes, we would have a MORGUE over crowding problem, and not a PRISON over crowding problem, sir.

You are an Anti-gunner's dream- a gun owner who believes that civilians with guns are going to shoot their family members rather than the bad guys. This is a farce perpetuated by an Ohio Mayor years ago, who had a series of "Mistaken ID" shootings at people's homes. He took a look at the number of bad guys killed by residents during an arbitrarily selected period of time, and then compared those numbers to the number of "innocent" people shot by homeowners during the same time. He happened to pick a time frame where killings of Bad guys were low, and killings of Not-so-bad-guys was high, and came up with a silly ratio of 43:1 for civilians being killed vs. bad guys. No data on people shot and wounded, nor on bad guys who surrendered when faced with an armed homeowner - just body counts. If you are old enough to remember Vietnam, you should remember with what suspicion 'body count" statistics were finally met with by the American public.

We know that in 98% of the incidents where law abiding people stop criminals using guns- burglars, robbers, rapists, arsonists, killers, No shots are fired. NO one is Killed. The mere display of a firearm is enough to make the bad guys terminate their activity.

And, a deeper reading of those few incidents that occurred in Cincinatti involved a lot of "shirt-tail" relatives who were drunk, or high, and did not respond to commands to stop where they are, nor responded verbally to identify themselves before they were shot and killed. Yes, they are tragedies for the families involved. But, I didn't see a lot of homeowners indicted for murder following those incidents, either.

Your statement flies in the face of known facts, based on a substantial data base in the 48 states that allow concealed carry, and in all 50 states where law abiding people are allowed to own and use firearms for self defense.

Please Stop saying these things. Thank you. I don't care what kind of gun people buy, or use for self defense. I have different recommendations for people in different situations, but others disagree with me. That's fine. That's what makes America great. But, I would never suggest that people are more likely to shoot their own family members with a gun than a bad guy. Its just not true. As an instructor, trainer, I have far more problems getting law abiding citizens to shoot when they should shoot- they are much too willing to risk their own life, and the lives of their loved ones by waiting too long.

Readers might want to read:
"The Bias Against Guns, by John R. Lott, Jr.; "More Guns Less Crime", by John R. Lott, Jr.; and "Targeting Guns. Firearms and Their Control", by Gary Kleck. These studies all put the lie to the statement made about gun owners. :hmm:
 
Don't have a heart attack Paul, we love you too much. The point, is there are irresponsible gun owners out there and we gun owners need to be the ones who address that problem, not the anti-gun crowd.

Did you read about the 2 1/2 year old who killed his 6 year old brother over Memorial Day weekend? The guy had some 53 guns around the house, evidently quite a few of them out in the open and loaded. That is just the most recent example of what we as gun owners need to deal with to protect our rights. Calling me an "anti-gunners dream" just because I want to protect little kids is way over the top Paul. If we want to protect the shooting sports we need to be proactive, otherwise there will be fewer and fewer places to shoot. I'm tired of being treated like an idiot just because I own guns. The only solution is rational, cool-headed action, not foaming at the mouth.

I know something about people dying from guns. My twin brother committed suicide with an old octagon barreled 32 rimfire. It was before the days of gun safes, but such things are still happening.

By the way, you didn't address my main point: American gun manufacturers don't manufacture good BP guns, because they are no good for shooting people and sadly that is what attracts a lot of people.
 
I forgot to mention...Google the following: "accidental gun tragedies mistaken for burglar" read the multiple hits, and then try to deny that gun owners often shoot their loved ones thinking they are bad guys. Admitting this is not anti-gun...it is just facing the facts. I'm not saying we should do away with home defense guns (hardly!)we just need to get manufacturers to give equal time to advertising the fine art of BP shooting. They might be surprised at how much money they would make.
 
You can't prevent suicides. If you foil the person one way they simply find another. My ex-wife took her life, using one of my guns, when I was away from home. She was 43 years old. Before I knew her, she had tried to commit suicide with pills. She did leave a note blaming her mother and me for all her problems. She was clinically depressed, but refused all medical treatment. Her mother and I were the only two people who tried to help her, to whom she might accept some aid. She was oriented enough in space and time, and denied she was a threat to her own safety or the safety of others- the standard used for involuntary commitments to mental hospitals- so that we could not commit her. She was a lawyer who represented indigent mental patients, and knew better than I did what a person had to say to doctors, and to a judge to avoid being committed. She argued that Suicide was the ultimate "civil right" of all free people.

I was consoled by a man whose wife hanged herself in the garage when he took their 2 children to the local Dairy Queen for Ice Cream after dinner. No warning, no fight, no note. They found her body when they activated the Garage door opener less than 15 minutes after leaving home. He had guns in the house. She chose to hang herself.

Millions of home have loaded guns around them, and kids have grown up knowing not to touch them, without adult supervision. My friend's 2 1/2 year old brother showed us what he had been taught about firearms safety, getting guns out of the closet, and showing he knew how to open them and check them to see that they were unloaded. Yes, it took a lot of effort by Bud and his parents and brother and sister to train Mike to know this all at that age, but he was safer than many adults I have supervised at classes where we taught them to use firearms for self defense.

AND, we simply are not going to reach everyone. Often when you hear these stories, you don't get the real significant details about the family. The news wants the Sensational stuff. Lots of guns Is Sensational news to the reporter, who grows up without any guns in the home, no training in either shooting or firearms safety, and has no clue how people who do own firearms train their children to be safe around guns. Some will even argue that YOU CAN'T train kids to be safe around guns, and that really separates the NON-shooters, from we shooters.

The Few accidental shootings of children by other children almost always involved homes with little adult supervision and training of the children, are tragic, but the result of other factors in the home.

There is a greater likelihood that the adults in the home are engaged in illegal activities, and the loaded guns they have are there to protect themselves from raids from rival criminals. These are not the "law-abiding" people who buy their guns at gun stores, obey waiting periods, nor obtain firearms training on how to be safe with guns in the home. Too many cops- and retired cops involved, and they don't want to let the cops know they have a gun. ( It may even be illegal for one or both parents to own a gun, based on criminal histories.)

Accidents can happen to anyone, of any age. Being a parent is a 24/7 job, and my highest respect goes out to people who try do their best, even when failure appears. We don't teach people how to be great parents, for the most part. Its OTJ training, at best. We have half a dozen children under the age of 5 or 6, accidentally killed- usually by other children, with guns, in this country, annually, according to statistics. John Lott has written and lectured on this very topic often. Considering the number of homes with guns( where people admit to owning at least one gun) is about 85 million, these tragedies are thankfully very low. They are a much lower percentage of accidental shooting deaths since 1934, when the NRA first began offering Firearm and Hunter Safety training courses. The increase in the number of guns owned does not create a higher number of accidental shootings. I began teaching Hunter Safety back in 1982, and I have seen the number and rate of firearms hunting accidents steadily drop in my State( Illinois) since I began teaching. In fact, hunting accidents involving firearms have dropped so low, that the DNR now has a part A and Part B section, to include non-firearm related accidents involving hunters.

This other category mostly includes falls from trees and tree stands that result in injuries sufficiently serious that the party has to seek medical assistance. Its the reports from the medical providers to State officials that generate this category. However, even padding the Accident reports with these incidents, we still have only about 20 accidental injuries or deaths in a state that sells more than 300,000 permits and licenses. :hmm: :idunno: :surrender: :thumbsup:
 
Mr. Vallandigham,
I am right with you on this one, 100%. What folks don't realize is with over 300,000,000 people in the US and many times that number of firearms, citing a single case or even a thousand cases leaves quite a large majority of people that don't have a tragedy. Granted one child's death is one child too many but life is what it is. Some calamity befalls us all at sometime or another.
Do not give an inch to anyone that makes noise about gun restrictive regulations or comfort to the enemy.
 
Ummm, should my posts be flagged with a WARNING of some sort? Seems like my recent "Conical recommendations" sparked a conflagration of sorts and this one as well. On the other hand, I can't complain about lack of information here. I think my next post will be on .50 vs. .54...nahhhh.
 

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