It's not a group...it's so bad it's not even a shotgun pattern....I need help.

[dave951]

Is there a better cap?

Currently it’s the best you can get

 

[fireman1]

That minie design is for light charges.

How light?

 

[fireman1]

Currently it’s the best you can get

I bought about 200 of them.....I should have bought more.

 

[PathfinderNC]

And don’t overlook the simplest of things.
If you’re shooting over a rest (such as a sand bag) hold the fore stock / barrel down steady.
a while back I was shooting off a bench with a sandbag, letting thebarrel simply rest in place as I aimed in and let fly. At fifty yards I was missing the entire paper!
The next day it occurred to me that the recoil was throwing my aim way off. So I stabilized the barrel with my left hand and guess what?
2”groups at fifty yards

 

[dave951]

How light?

35-40gr 3f

 

[hanshi]

Sorta guessing but those are the wrong type of bullets. You need some hollow base minies, or better yet, patched round ball.

 

[fireman1]

Sorta guessing but those are the wrong type of bullets. You need some hollow base minies, or better yet, patched round ball.

They are hollow based minies just not the traditional type.

 

[fireman1]

Got back with my engineer friends. At one point all 3 engineers were there, their lead machinist and a draftsman. I hate to think how much that time would cost if billed to me.

Their 3 and 4 point calipers are too small. A couple of other tools they had just did not have the adjustment to get to .575 or so. The upshot is I plan to slug the bore and metal lathes? to measure it on several different axis. Like I said, they are now into this and what to know exactly what it is.

 

[fireman1]

Success!!

First I dropped the powder charge to 45 grain then I finished shooting up the smaller ball on the left. Still not on the paper. I then started with the ones on the right. First shot was high and a bit left. Lowered my point of aim and 5 shots in a 6" vertical group....not great but way better. I think that the powder charge was inconsistent. I noticed that I could tap the powder measure and powder would settle. Also, these bullets are too large but I size them rolling them between 2 pieces of steel. My sizing is not consistent. There is more work to do but I'm getting there.

 

[Hiddeninsmoke]

Start from the beginning and thoroughly brush the bore of the rifle using an appropriate bore cleaner to remove any fouling or rust. That done, run acetone wetted patches down the bore until one comes out clean, indicating there is no oil or grease in the bore. Next, using a slightly oversized bore brush try and determine the twist of the rifling so you know whether to shoot minnies or round balls. Neither is accurate in the wrong bore. Minnies in a slow twist will most likely awe and flip with inaccuracy expected. Round balls in a fast twist seem to go wherever they want, which is hardly ever the same place you want them to go

Having determined the right ammunition, next select the right powder. Number 3 powder is fast burning pistol powder and not the best for long barrel rifles. It starts the bullet very fast and in a rifle the bullet might begin to slow before leaving the muzzle. This can contribute to inaccuracy. Use number 2 powder in a rifle, starting out at a low powder charge and increase the charge until you hit what seems right for your rifle/ammunition combination. You will know what is right when you start hitting the target with consistent accuracy. At that point, you can increase the powder charge a bit as long as you don't start losing accuracy.

 

[Slip6]

You can get an idea of bore size with calipers, the get a few pin gauges from Amazon to figure out bore diameter, then size the Minie’s .001” or .002” below bore size.

The pin gauges, what is the type did you buy, zz or z specifications

 

[dave951]

Got back with my engineer friends. At one point all 3 engineers were there, their lead machinist and a draftsman. I hate to think how much that time would cost if billed to me.

Their 3 and 4 point calipers are too small. A couple of other tools they had just did not have the adjustment to get to .575 or so. The upshot is I plan to slug the bore and metal lathes? to measure it on several different axis. Like I said, they are now into this and what to know exactly what it is.

This is the absolute best I could get out of that bullet, and it wasn't consistent. I think the twist in my guns is better suited to a heavier, longer bullet. I know others who have had their barrels relined and they get this kind of accuracy at 100yds. The issue with a light bullet is it can easily be moved by wind.

Here's what a heavier bullet will do in the very same gun at the same distance.

Back to your gun, Do NOT slug the bore. Just get a couple pin gauges from Amazon, they're like $5 each. You won't need a whole set. Get .577 .579 .581. If .577 won't fit, your bore is likely .575-6. If .579 won't fit, your bore is .577-8. If .581 won't fit but .579 does your bore is .580.

Next, you can get really good sizing dies with a 7/8x14 thread. They're designed to fit a standard reloading press. Size your minies to .001 under bore size. Again on commercial minies, if you want good, quality minies, Lodgewood is the ONLY source I'd trust. Track and others are round ball guys. The fellow that casts for Lodgewood is a fellow N-SSA competitor and Pat knows how to cast a minie. If I want to look into a different mold design, I'll get a sample pack from him before buying the mold for more serious load development.

As for powder, 3f is fine, 2f may work. This is something that will have to be determined by experiment. I got my best accuracy with the bullets I use with 3f Old Eynsford. With the latest Goex issue, I've moved over to 3f Swiss. These two powders are nearly identical in performance. Don't get caught up in "service charges" of 60g if you're looking for best accuracy. It's often found with most guns in the 40-50gr range with 3f, but again, sometimes 2f yields better results. Ditch the pyrodex.

Lube- basic beeswax/lard with a touch of lanolin.

Get this right and you won't have to resort to any of the round ball gyrations of bore wiping etc. The minie was designed to be able to reload a "fouled" gun and keep accuracy at the same time so fouling type and control is the key. I've run a musket with a minie for over 60 shots straight with no wiping and no loading issues nor loss of accuracy.

But what do I know..........

 

[towgunner11h]

The pin gauges, what is the type did you buy, zz or z specifications
[/QUOTE
Knowing my cheap a@@, probably ZZ. Will have to look- they were about $5 each, so go figure.

 

[fireman1]

Weird, my post is all gone.

That is great shooting!

Any way. Another member had messaged me about using pin gauges. I took your advice and ordered all 3 sizes so I should be getting that figured out when they show up. Seems easier than slugging a bore.

Sizing die? I'm clueless on where to find them. Googling leads me to DGW but they only show on type with no mention of what it will size the minie bullet down to. Is there a better place to order?

 

[fireman1]

Dave,

I'm glad to know that I can use FFFg in this. I've got a fair amount of that.

No issue starting with 40 grains and working up?

Do you use cartridges or measure each load out?

I ordered beeswax with the pin gauges, plenty of lard in the house. I'm sure the females have some Lanolin around. I guess I need to watch a video or 2 on lubing cast bullets to get this figured out.

I'm having a ton of fun with this even though I'm just getting it on paper now.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[dave951]

No issue starting with 40 grains and working up?

I'd start at 35 and start working up in 3gr increments. The increment is small enough to show if a group is developing but large enough to not waste time. If the first 3 shots aren't pretty close, stop, move to the next.

Do you use cartridges or measure each load out?

While making paper cartridges can be fun and educational, I shoot N-SSA competition and we shoot cartridges. They are nothing more than plastic pipe ends that a minie will friction fit into, nose down. I do use a standard black powder measure to make them, but I weigh every 10th charge to verify consistency. When doing load development, I still use cartridges, but I will weigh each and every charge.

I ordered beeswax with the pin gauges, plenty of lard in the house. I'm sure the females have some Lanolin around. I guess I need to watch a video or 2 on lubing cast bullets to get this figured out.

Melt the beeswax/lard/lanolin in a small pot. I dip lube the base of the assembled cartridge. No rocket science here. There are tons of lube recipes but this on works on most for me.


Sizing dies, two sources- Tom Crone of the N-SSA or John at HOME | home

 

[towgunner11h]

Tom Crone
6305 ED Crone Lane
Frederick MD. 21703
( 301 ) 473-5699

 

[fireman1]

I'd start at 35 and start working up in 3gr increments. The increment is small enough to show if a group is developing but large enough to not waste time. If the first 3 shots aren't pretty close, stop, move to the next.


While making paper cartridges can be fun and educational, I shoot N-SSA competition and we shoot cartridges. They are nothing more than plastic pipe ends that a minie will friction fit into, nose down. I do use a standard black powder measure to make them, but I weigh every 10th charge to verify consistency. When doing load development, I still use cartridges, but I will weigh each and every charge.


Melt the beeswax/lard/lanolin in a small pot. I dip lube the base of the assembled cartridge. No rocket science here. There are tons of lube recipes but this on works on most for me.


Sizing dies, two sources- Tom Crone of the N-SSA or John at HOME | home

35 grain? Down there in pistol loads. I like that.

With teh plastic tub how do you keep fouling out of the powder? Cap one end of the tube and bullet in the other end, nose down?

My goal is to get shooting this well enough and find a team over the winter to go shooting with next year.

I'm gonna mix up a small batch of lube this week and check it out

Rich

 

[fireman1]

Tom Crone
6305 ED Crone Lane
Frederick MD. 21703
( 301 ) 473-5699

Thanks! I will try him once I get the bore size.

 

[dave951]

35 grain? Down there in pistol loads. I like that.

Today's test with Moose International minie and 43g Swiss 3f. No, you don't need gobs of powder.

With teh plastic tub how do you keep fouling out of the powder? Cap one end of the tube and bullet in the other end, nose down?

Check out the picture- it says it all.

My goal is to get shooting this well enough and find a team over the winter to go shooting with next year.

What state are you in? We're in the Carolinas Region and we have folks on our team from Charleston SC, all the way up to Roanoke, VA and one guy from TX. Get shooting.

dave