I've never been happy with this gun...

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I agree with you. We all tend to get really focussed on tiny groups, when the reality i that any shot group 6" or less around the POA will result in a good kill. Target sports are a whole 'nother game. I have watched infernal item shooters burn up several boxes of ammo trying to get single hole groups, when the rifle probably wasn't capable of that level of accuracy, let alone the shooter.

I can easily make single hole groups with most my infernal devices - trouble is, the second shot ruins the group. Another way of looking at it is that when viewing your target, liberally sprinkled with hosed-on hole - consider each shot as an independent group and you won't be too downhearted.
 
I agree with you. We all tend to get really focussed on tiny groups, when the reality i that any shot group 6" or less around the POA will result in a good kill. Target sports are a whole 'nother game. I have watched infernal item shooters burn up several boxes of ammo trying to get single hole groups, when the rifle probably wasn't capable of that level of accuracy, let alone the shooter.
I absolutely agree with both of you when it comes to everyday accuracy.

I was blessed from the very beginning of my flint longrifle journey that started in June 1971 when I was 17 years old. For whatever reason, by my second range session, I stumbled upon that magical combination of patch thickness, ball diameter, and lube (spit) that gave me silver dollar size groups of 5 shots at 100 yards. This was with a semi-custom, GAA .45 caliber rifle that had a 1:48" twist Douglas barrel.

The next two custom flint longrifles, both with Getz barrels (one .50 caliber & one .62 caliber), provided me with the exact same level of accuracy.

Since my eyes could not let me see to kill at 100 yards, searching for better accuracy never occurred to me. Silver dollar size groups at 100 yards always seemed like excellent accuracy to me when I was young, and now that I am 67 such a group size would please me greatly.

As I have aged I have come to agree with Col. Jeff Cooper as regards to everyday accuracy. His criteria for a Scout Rifle was 2 M.O.A. out to 400 yards/meters. This was to kill, or better yet, incapacitate enemy combatants. As the Scout Rifle came to be adopted for hunting, the same criteria applied to medium skinned game up to 600 pounds.

How much accuracy is truly required to hunt with? Most shooters cannot begin to wring out the potential accuracy inheritent in any good modern muzzleloading barrel. Hugh Toenges has established this pretty convincingly by the use of his homemade barrel testing device. Most barrels are capable of one hole groups, shot after shot, out to at least 50 yards, if not farther. It's the stock, and the shooter that keeps a barrel from reaching its potential.

For me, any new rifle that will keep 5 shots inside of 2" at 50 meters (65 yards), is OK with me. Because, that's as far as I ever plan to pull the trigger on anything, ant to elephant, shooting with open/aperture iron sights for the balance of my hunting days. If I stumble upon better accuracy than 4 M.O.A, so much the better. But, I don't plan to spend vast amounts of time, resources, and money searching for the "ONE HOLE HOLY GRAIL".
 
I built this .54 full stock Hawken in 2018. Ignition is nearly instantaneous and I am pleased with the wood, the finish and construction. However, its never shot as well as I thought it should.

View attachment 90118


My .54 percussion half stock rifle is capable of breaking clay pigeons at 100 yards with FF loads and that has greatly affected my accuracy expectations for the flinter. Over the past two years I have experimented considerably with patch thickness, various lubes and powder charges. Nothing seemed to make a significant difference. The Colerain barrel is bored a bit tighter than my half stock, forcing me to use thinner patches. Also, the twist rate is 1:56 where the halfstock is 1:66 and the rifling grooves are round bottomed. I had pretty much resolved myself to accept that "that's just how it is" and be content with mediocre performance.

Until now...

I have been using Swiss FF exclusively since that was working so well in the half stock. A couple of weeks ago I decided to try some FFF Swiss in the flintlock. I am surprised to report that with all other factors remaining the same, FFF powder is making a very significant improvement in accuracy. Now, after two years of experimenting we are back in the game with clay pigeons at 100 yards.

Here is my 100 yard target from this afternoon. Shot #3 was a high flier and I'll blame that on shooter error ( sun was in my eyes..etc. ). I have no complaints about the other three.

Moral of the story - Keep trying,

View attachment 90123
how many shots do you have thru her. i have a colrain on my .36. literally took 200 shots before it settled down. shots great now
 
Have you tried the Lee Shavers method of lapping the bore? Or scrubbing the bore with maroon Scotch Brite pad and a lubricating oil?
 
I built this .54 full stock Hawken in 2018. Ignition is nearly instantaneous and I am pleased with the wood, the finish and construction. However, its never shot as well as I thought it should.

View attachment 90118


My .54 percussion half stock rifle is capable of breaking clay pigeons at 100 yards with FF loads and that has greatly affected my accuracy expectations for the flinter. Over the past two years I have experimented considerably with patch thickness, various lubes and powder charges. Nothing seemed to make a significant difference. The Colerain barrel is bored a bit tighter than my half stock, forcing me to use thinner patches. Also, the twist rate is 1:56 where the halfstock is 1:66 and the rifling grooves are round bottomed. I had pretty much resolved myself to accept that "that's just how it is" and be content with mediocre performance.

Until now...

I have been using Swiss FF exclusively since that was working so well in the half stock. A couple of weeks ago I decided to try some FFF Swiss in the flintlock. I am surprised to report that with all other factors remaining the same, FFF powder is making a very significant improvement in accuracy. Now, after two years of experimenting we are back in the game with clay pigeons at 100 yards.

Here is my 100 yard target from this afternoon. Shot #3 was a high flier and I'll blame that on shooter error ( sun was in my eyes..etc. ). I have no complaints about the other three.

Moral of the story - Keep trying,

View attachment 90123
You may have a typ0? It's a beautiful full stock! Nice pics!
 
@Tom A Hawk, I thought that I would post a picture of my experience with my Colerain radius grooved barrel. Its in my 1803 Harper's Ferry. I use 0.018" (uncompressed) #40 Cotton Drill cloth with my 1 part water soluble oil and seven parts water. The ball size is 0.535" swaged Hogden balls and all this over 65 grains of 3fg Old Eynsford powder. I do have to use a short starter to get the ball going down the barrel but after the start, loading is easy and I am not cutting patches.

1629233544497.jpeg


Yes, I did pull one shot. The nut behind the butt plate needed tightening. I would expect your rifle should be capable of the same ability to group. I never needed to smooth the barrel.
 
Glad that pretty Hawken is shooting better. Were the thinner patches getting cut at loading or gas blow by burning holes in it? I use 70 grains FFFg in my Hawken flinter and .015 patching and .530 round balls. Bill Large barrel on project Hawken loads too tight with .530 round ball so cast .526 with Lyman steel block mold. .526 mold defective in making ugly parachute shaped sprues. Let us know how the Lee special order mold from Brownell works. Always been partial to steel molds over aluminum.
 
Follow the guru Britsmoothy's advice and go to 4fg Goex and all your problems will be over.
Actually that is not my advice.
My first advise would be to make sure the barrel is bedded snuggly from breech to the end of the fore end and make sure the lock plate and any internal part of the lock is not touching the barrel.
 
Apologies, I was kinda sorta joking.
No worries.
They are now different than a modern rifle. A poorly bedded rifle will always be load fussy. Muzzleloader or other.
Everyone jumps on load variations.
Any firearm of mine that don't like to shoot well gets pulled apart to find out what is rattling that barrel!
 
I built this .54 full stock Hawken in 2018. Ignition is nearly instantaneous and I am pleased with the wood, the finish and construction. However, its never shot as well as I thought it should.

View attachment 90118


My .54 percussion half stock rifle is capable of breaking clay pigeons at 100 yards with FF loads and that has greatly affected my accuracy expectations for the flinter. Over the past two years I have experimented considerably with patch thickness, various lubes and powder charges. Nothing seemed to make a significant difference. The Colerain barrel is bored a bit tighter than my half stock, forcing me to use thinner patches. Also, the twist rate is 1:56 where the halfstock is 1:66 and the rifling grooves are round bottomed. I had pretty much resolved myself to accept that "that's just how it is" and be content with mediocre performance.

Until now...

I have been using Swiss FF exclusively since that was working so well in the half stock. A couple of weeks ago I decided to try some FFF Swiss in the flintlock. I am surprised to report that with all other factors remaining the same, FFF powder is making a very significant improvement in accuracy. Now, after two years of experimenting we are back in the game with clay pigeons at 100 yards.

Here is my 100 yard target from this afternoon. Shot #3 was a high flier and I'll blame that on shooter error ( sun was in my eyes..etc. ). I have no complaints about the other three.

Moral of the story - Keep trying,

View attachment 90123
I'd be happy with that! I use 3f and 0.526 balls with pillow ticking and get similar results. I've even tried bare balls (ouch!) and had decent results, hit the target and with a smooth bore! Just playin!
 
@Tom A Hawk, I thought that I would post a picture of my experience with my Colerain radius grooved barrel. Its in my 1803 Harper's Ferry. I use 0.018" (uncompressed) #40 Cotton Drill cloth with my 1 part water soluble oil and seven parts water. The ball size is 0.535" swaged Hogden balls and all this over 65 grains of 3fg Old Eynsford powder. I do have to use a short starter to get the ball going down the barrel but after the start, loading is easy and I am not cutting patches.

View attachment 90234

Yes, I did pull one shot. The nut behind the butt plate needed tightening. I would expect your rifle should be capable of the same ability to group. I never needed to smooth the barrel.
A very respectable group.

Here is my 50 yard "eureka" target and initial use of 3F Swiss. Yep, I pulled one also.

1629239982820.jpeg
 
Well...I just discovered that Brownells offers a .526 Lee mold on a special order basis. Will continue the experiments when it arrives in a few weeks.
I hope you're right! It was my understanding that the listing for that .526" mould on the Brownell's website was a typo, that it was actually the Lee .562" mould. Please let us know what you get!

I was recently looking through an older Track of the Wolf catalog that I saved, and I saw that Track used to carry a Lee round ball mould in .527". I doubt Lee would have discarded the cherry. One would think they could be talked into making a run of moulds in that size, once they get caught up. There should be plenty of interest. I would buy one, for sure.

Also, I'll have to say, your Hawken flintlock rifle is just outstanding! It's a beauty, and with your patience and willingness to experiment, it has proven to be a shooter, too.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 
I hope you're right! It was my understanding that the listing for that .526" mould on the Brownell's website was a typo, that it was actually the Lee .562" mould. Please let us know what you get!

I was recently looking through an older Track of the Wolf catalog that I saved, and I saw that Track used to carry a Lee round ball mould in .527". I doubt Lee would have discarded the cherry. One would think they could be talked into making a run of moulds in that size, once they get caught up. There should be plenty of interest. I would buy one, for sure.

Also, I'll have to say, your Hawken flintlock rifle is just outstanding! It's a beauty, and with your patience and willingness to experiment, it has proven to be a shooter, too.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
Damn!!. You're right about the typo Bob. And, its Deja Vu all over again. I went on this same path two years ago. Good for you for remembering. Now I have to cancel the Brownells order.😠
 
Damn!!. You're right about the typo Bob. And, its Deja Vu all over again. I went on this same path two years ago. Good for you for remembering. Now I have to cancel the Brownells order.😠
Well, dang it! I was hoping I was wrong on this, but I checked the Brownells website after I submitted that post, and it appears all of the Lee round ball moulds are "special order" right now, and they have a .562" listed, but no .526".

Maybe we could talk the Eras Gone guy into ordering a batch of .525" or .526" round ball moulds from Lee. I believe all of his bullet moulds are custom designs from Lee. A lot of us .54 shooters here on this board would be interested, probably enough of us right here to make it worth his while.

Best of luck to you, Tom!

Notchy Bob
 
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