Alaska-Bush-Man
Pilgrim
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I have two Browning's J.B Mountain Rifles in 50 and 54 Cal. How authentic are these rifles to the original Mountain Rifle. Thanks for any help.
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J.B. Mountain Rifle
- Thread starter Alaska-Bush-Man
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Jeff: I couldn't find a picture of that gun but I do have a old Blue Book of Gun Values (1997) which lists it. It says the Mountain rifle was worth $450 (100%), $375 (98%). I think I saw one once and thought it was a fairly good recreation.
My best advice is for you to get a good book on the subject.
With regard to this idea, these are the four books I have on the Hawken, listed in the order of value (from best to least value) as a source of information that I would place on them. All of them are interesting but some are better for use in helping you evaulate your gun.
"HAWKEN RIFLES The Mountain Man's Choice"
by John D. Baird.
The Buckskin Press 1968
Lots of good photos, drawings and supporting text and tables.
BO0552
"THE HAWKEN RIFLE: ITS PLACE IN HISTORY"
By Charles E. Hanson, Jr
The Fur Press 1994
Lots of historical tables and information, a few photos of actual Hawkens.
BO0604
"THE PLAINS RIFLE"
by Charles E. Hanson, Jr
The Gunroom Press 1960
Broad coverage of several different Halfstock rifles. Does not get in depth on Hawkens but gives some info on Demick, Tryon and others. Some photos, drawings.
BO0558
"FIFTEEN YEARS IN THE HAWKEN LODE"
by John D. Baird.
The Buckskin Press 1971
A few photos of originals and several of recreations. After reading his first book I was rather disappointed with this one.
BO0551
There are other books on the subject, I just don't have them. The "BO..." is the Dixie Catalog item number to let you know they are still in print, and that Dixie carries them. Other book stores should be able to order them as well.
Hope this helps you.
My best advice is for you to get a good book on the subject.
With regard to this idea, these are the four books I have on the Hawken, listed in the order of value (from best to least value) as a source of information that I would place on them. All of them are interesting but some are better for use in helping you evaulate your gun.
"HAWKEN RIFLES The Mountain Man's Choice"
by John D. Baird.
The Buckskin Press 1968
Lots of good photos, drawings and supporting text and tables.
BO0552
"THE HAWKEN RIFLE: ITS PLACE IN HISTORY"
By Charles E. Hanson, Jr
The Fur Press 1994
Lots of historical tables and information, a few photos of actual Hawkens.
BO0604
"THE PLAINS RIFLE"
by Charles E. Hanson, Jr
The Gunroom Press 1960
Broad coverage of several different Halfstock rifles. Does not get in depth on Hawkens but gives some info on Demick, Tryon and others. Some photos, drawings.
BO0558
"FIFTEEN YEARS IN THE HAWKEN LODE"
by John D. Baird.
The Buckskin Press 1971
A few photos of originals and several of recreations. After reading his first book I was rather disappointed with this one.
BO0551
There are other books on the subject, I just don't have them. The "BO..." is the Dixie Catalog item number to let you know they are still in print, and that Dixie carries them. Other book stores should be able to order them as well.
Hope this helps you.
Well it turns out I lied. A few weeks ago at a gun show a guy was Giving away old MUZZLE BLAST magazines and I picked out a few. One was from Jan 1984 and as I was taking my morning "read" (sounds better than dump) I leafed thru it. Lo and Behold! there is an ad for your gun. Midway Arms Inc had bought up the last of them and was selling them for $295! The following is based on the Photo in the ad and pictures in Bairds HAWKEN RIFLES.
I can't tell what finish your gun has but it should be rubbed oil, not the glossy type that Browning often uses.
The furniture should all be browned steel. (Trappers didn't want any bright things).
The JBMR lock is quite different so the wood around it is also has a different shape. Almost all the Hawkens seemed to have lockplates similar to the average lock shape (like a new Sylar lock). The gun in the ad has a larger much more rounded shape forward of the hammer.
The JBMR Trigger guard is similar but is more rounded. The Hawken guard is much more elliptical.
The rear of the guard looks authentic but I can't tell how it's attached. The Hawken used a screw from inside the trigger plate into the guard. The front had a stud which was screwed into the trigger plate ahead of the triggers.
I can't tell what your trigger plate looks like but the original Hawken plate was 10 inches or more long and extended from ahead of the trigger guard to the rear going completly under the stock wrist. Some Hawkens (but not all) had a screw down thru the stock at the back of the wrist (or in the comb) into the rear of the trigger plate to add strength to this weakest place in the stock.
The shape of butt plate looks correct. (Some had more, some less curve).
The JBMR Sights are taller. This is typical of all newer guns. Often the originals front sight only stuck up 1/8 or less. I can't tell what the JBMR rear sight type is but both flat top and Buckhorns were used on the originals. They were of course non adjustable.
The JBMR general stock shape is very similar except the nose in the ad looks to be bright. It should be brown iron.
The biggest difference I see is the amount of drop.
I measured the add photo and calculated the drop as being about 2.7 inches with a 14 inch pull. Using the same method, the Kit Carson gun drop is about 3.14 if the pull was 13.5 inches (he was a little man), and another original was 3.25 based on a 14 inch pull.
Most modern Black Powder guns fail to use the amount of drop the old guns had. I'm not sure why this is true but I think it's because they think it will sell better to modern shooters and the stock designer has never shot a BP gun so they think the recoil will be excessive. (As you know, the "kick" is much softer with BP for a equal amount of muzzle energy).
I hope this helps you out, and remember these are just my opnions (which is what you asked for).
I can't tell what finish your gun has but it should be rubbed oil, not the glossy type that Browning often uses.
The furniture should all be browned steel. (Trappers didn't want any bright things).
The JBMR lock is quite different so the wood around it is also has a different shape. Almost all the Hawkens seemed to have lockplates similar to the average lock shape (like a new Sylar lock). The gun in the ad has a larger much more rounded shape forward of the hammer.
The JBMR Trigger guard is similar but is more rounded. The Hawken guard is much more elliptical.
The rear of the guard looks authentic but I can't tell how it's attached. The Hawken used a screw from inside the trigger plate into the guard. The front had a stud which was screwed into the trigger plate ahead of the triggers.
I can't tell what your trigger plate looks like but the original Hawken plate was 10 inches or more long and extended from ahead of the trigger guard to the rear going completly under the stock wrist. Some Hawkens (but not all) had a screw down thru the stock at the back of the wrist (or in the comb) into the rear of the trigger plate to add strength to this weakest place in the stock.
The shape of butt plate looks correct. (Some had more, some less curve).
The JBMR Sights are taller. This is typical of all newer guns. Often the originals front sight only stuck up 1/8 or less. I can't tell what the JBMR rear sight type is but both flat top and Buckhorns were used on the originals. They were of course non adjustable.
The JBMR general stock shape is very similar except the nose in the ad looks to be bright. It should be brown iron.
The biggest difference I see is the amount of drop.
I measured the add photo and calculated the drop as being about 2.7 inches with a 14 inch pull. Using the same method, the Kit Carson gun drop is about 3.14 if the pull was 13.5 inches (he was a little man), and another original was 3.25 based on a 14 inch pull.
Most modern Black Powder guns fail to use the amount of drop the old guns had. I'm not sure why this is true but I think it's because they think it will sell better to modern shooters and the stock designer has never shot a BP gun so they think the recoil will be excessive. (As you know, the "kick" is much softer with BP for a equal amount of muzzle energy).
I hope this helps you out, and remember these are just my opnions (which is what you asked for).
I haven't seen a pic of one of these guns for some time but as I recall they pretty well captured the general appearance of the Mt./Plains rifle of 1840's and later, there were many makers other than Hawkens and they may follow the form/style of these more closely. all in all probably not bad for a production gun.The advise to research guns from that time period is the best way to go then you can compare the different details with the originals.
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