Jager Projectiles

[dylan84]

I have been researching the Jager rifle and have come up with the fact that they had a fairly quick twist rate. Obviously they were not designed to shoot the simple round ball. What projectile did they shoot historically? I can not find anything that leads me to that important bit of information. Everything I research leads me to the Civil War use of conicals. Obviously it was done way before that! Thanks for any info you may have on the subject. I was really hoping to see what one actually looked like.

 

[cositrike]

I have been researching the Jager rifle and have come up with the fact that they had a fairly quick twist rate. Obviously they were not designed to shoot the simple round ball. What projectile did they shoot historically? I can not find anything that leads me to that important bit of information. Everything I research leads me to the Civil War use of conicals. Obviously it was done way before that! Thanks for any info you may have on the subject. I was really hoping to see what one actually looked like.

That’s interesting. Any research that I have done, suggests a slowish twist on Germanic Jaeger rifles and as far as I’m aware, they definitely us3d patched round ball. I’ve not seen any references to conicals or anything like that

 

[dylan84]

That’s interesting. Any research that I have done, suggests a slowish twist on Germanic Jaeger rifles and as far as I’m aware, they definitely us3d patched round ball. I’ve not seen any references to conicals or anything like that

https://capandball.com/the-germanic-jager-rifle-article-and-film-part-1/
This example was made in the early 1700's and was 31" twist.

 

[dylan84]

The American kits are all centered around patched ball twist rates. The Pedersoli hunter version is the only one I know of with a faster twist rate. From my research of original rifles, the twist rate was usually one twist per barrel length. I know them crafty Germans had a sweet looking bullet! lol

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

All of the original Germanic rifles I have handled have had 1 turn in the length of the barrel They used patched round ball.

 

[cositrike]

https://capandball.com/the-germanic-jager-rifle-article-and-film-part-1/
This example was made in the early 1700's and was 31" twist.

This one was built also in the earl 1700’s, but the barrel may be older. It’s about 1/2 twist in 32 inch barrel. My other one is about 3/4 twist in 34” barrel. I’ll see if I can check some others next time I go to the Royal Armouries collection, in Leeds England

 

[Grenadier1758]

As @Comfortably_Numb states, the going rate of twist was one turn in the barrel length. The jaeger rifles had deep grooves. The projectile was a patched round ball tightly fit to the bore. Patched round balls, properly fit to the barrel will be accurate on target.

 

[dylan84]

Ok that leads me back to the question of why the faster twist rate? They had to have done that for a reason.

 

[Grenadier1758]

It just made sense to them that the twist should be equal to the barrel length. Intuitive, not scientific or based on physics. Such ballistic studies just didn't exist.

 

[dylan84]

By that point in time I would think they would have had a pretty good grasp on ballistics. It might be just one more of those details lost in history. Most of the laws of physics we go by today were figured out by that point in time. Ok well thanks for the responses!

 

[Grenadier1758]

They understood trajectory quite well. They understood that a spinning projectile was more accurate than a nonspinning projectile. The subtleties of angular momentum were still being worked out.

 

[Baldmonk]

Every original I have seen had one complete twist per barrel length. Most are quite short. Those make for some really tight twist rates.

 

[Mas Casa]

I've also seen generally one complete twist within the barrel length referred to. Considering rifling dates to about the mid-late 1500s, most nations had royal armories and labs, and by the time of the American Revolution (with the use of jaeger rifles and Pattern 1776 rifles) the sourcing and use of higher quality powders, they had some time to figure things out, and did.

 

[dylan84]

Maybe they figured out that faster spinning projectiles no matter what they shot had better terminal ballistics. Maybe less accurate but more deadly on the minute of vital area aspect.

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

Very tight roundball with patching thick enough to fill the deep, usually radius-bottom rifling grooves... Some of the Tige, or pillar breeched Jaegers fired a bare ball that was rammed against a spike protruding from the breech. This method swelled the round ball to fill the riflings, and was very easy to load.

 

[dylan84]

This one was built also in the earl 1700’s, but the barrel may be older. It’s about 1/2 twist in 32 inch barrel. My other one is about 3/4 twist in 34” barrel. I’ll see if I can check some others next time I go to the Royal Armouries collection, in Leeds England

That is an amazing specimen! Thanks

 

[andy52]

I have a custom reproduction in .75 that has Forsyth rifling that is 1-110 twist.

 

[dylan84]

I have a custom reproduction in .75 that has Forsyth rifling that is 1-110 twist.

How much does that ball weigh and what kind of accuracy? Thanks

 

[andy52]

How much does that ball weigh and what kind of accuracy? Thanks

The ball weighs 753 grs, I won't call it a tack driver but it's plenty good enough for hunting 2-3 inch at 50 yds. It shoots best at between 100-125 grs of 2F. I've taken up to 200 grs but it ain't fun to shoot with that much powder. With those heavy loads, I use a fiber over powder wad and then a patched ball otherwise the patch gets burned up badly.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

I have to wonder if maybe they were experimenting with different twist rates to see what would work best. I can remember reading articles years ago where there were some that had straight rifling .