Jim Chambers Lock Kits

[4deer]

Is buying one of Jim Chambers flintlock kits a good way save $45-$50 if I were to build a gun? I have a drill press and have partially dissembled my CVA flintlock a few times. Or, do you think the possible trouble not worth the savings? If I build a gun someday the idea of making my own lock is very appealing to me, but on the other hand I don't want a lock that has trouble sparking.

 

[J.D.]

I haven't assembled a Chambers Kit, but I have assembled an old, pre-Chambers Siler kit, and from experience, I suggest buying the assembled lock from Chambers.

IMHO, there is more to assembling a lock than drilling and tapping a few holes. The springs, frizzen, and internals need heat treating that requires more heat, and more control that a propane torch is capable of. Moreover, the cast in dimples that are supposed to represent the location of the screw holes, are usually, almost never, in the right location. So, properly locating the screw holes to give the correct relationships, of the parts, can require some creativity.

All in all, IMHO, for a novice, you would be much better off just buying a top quality lock.

 

[flashpanner]

I agree. Unless you have a good feel for the relationships of where all the parts are to be positioned and fits, a completed lock will save you lots of grief. Only other option would be if you had a M/L buddy/builder nearby to glean advice and hands on training. Get a completed lock for a first build, study and learn from it.
I hear/read nothing but great reviews of Jim Chamber's products, can't go wrong there.

 

[Roy]

I have to agree.. although I believe the springs already come tempered.. You have to heat treat the tumbler and the frizzen. I buy my locks all assembled unless its a TRS set of castings. For me its a time thing though not a money thing.

 

[Vaino]

When I first started building MLers in 1978, the quality of flintlocks was lousy so all my locks were made from Siler kits. It's correct info that the "dimpled" drill locations aren't necessarily in the right location....found this out the hard way and had to plug some holes in the lockplate. The tumbler, sear and fly heat treating can be a problem if not done properly. When Chambers came out w/ his excellent locks, I no longer even considered the kits. If you want to assemble a flintlock from a kit for educational purposes go to it, but if it's to save a few bucks, in the long run it's not worth it......Fred

 

[Treerat]

As long as Chambers is making locks in a style that I want for a project I will not assemble another kit. Going down that road is a good learning experience and certain areas can be polished/tweaked better soft than hardened but over all its not worth the price difference so long as you can get a lock of Chambers quality. If you do buy a Siler be sure it is one assembled by chambers and not one of the casting sets done by someone else. You can get them direct and I think all of Tracks Silers are the genuine Chambers article. The only other source I might consider would be R.E.Davis.
Bill

 

[Birddog6]

Hmmm............ You're going to spend ? $1000. for a good parts set. Now ya want to save $50-60 and maybe not be able to shoot it for ? who knows how long it will take ya to get the lock right ? if ever.

Locks (especially flintlocks) are to me like a auto trans. They are great when working & they suck when they don't. 95 out of 100 of the locks I have seen newbies build are crapola..... 3 of that last 5 work half-a$$ed..... The last 2 work good & are built buy guys that can do virtually anything with metal & a torch...... Building a lock & building a lock correctly and making it reliable & dependable, are definately 2 different things.....

That being said, I suggest you :

Call Jim Chambers & buy the lock from him finished, you will be glad ya did.... :grin:
Build the rifle with that finished lock.
THEN buy a lock Kit & play with it & build it.
Make it fit the same rifle.
Now you have a rifle that works & you can enjoy & you also have a lock to play with to get ready for your next rifle, if you are so keen on doing it yourself.

:thumbsup:

 

[Treerat]

One more thing. Evan considering special fixtures and a production set up it amazes me that they can sell a lock for only fifty dollars more than the castings,pay their workmen/sub contractors,maintain their level of quality and still make money. I think we are lucky to have Jim Chambers around.

 

[Stophel]

It's only "worth it" if you WANT to build a lock, and have an idea of the proper way to do it. Otherwise, no, not really.

I know what I'm doing ( :wink: Trust me...), and it takes me a good amount of time to build a lock, and your first one will take rather longer, so you end up not really saving anything.

 

[JOHN ZUREKI]

I bought a Siler lock set about 30 years ago from Mr.Siler. I did not have a good drill press at the time. My biggest problem was drilling the hole in the tumbler, perfect. If you do not drill the hole dead nut center in the hammer stud you will not be able to tap the hole. After misdrilling three tumblers Mrs. Siler, God bless her, sent me one already drilled. My advice, buy the lock from Barbie. I still have the three srewed up tumblers as reminders.

 

[Stophel]

One tricky thing with a Siler is the tumbler half cock notch can be too tight. Make sure that the sear nose is not jamming itself into the notch, and also make sure that as the cock is pulled back to fullcock, that there is enough room in there so that you aren't levering off the "hook" of the half cock. I had one of my locks break two tumblers, one right after another. Popped off the half cock hook. Finally figured out exactly why. Later, I was watching one of Hershel House's videos, and he said he had had the same problem, and broke several before he figured it out, so at least I'm in good company!

 

[Zonie]

I haven't had a half cock notch problem but drilling the hole for the frizzen was for me.

The frizzen casting is not drilled and to drill it the top of the pan and the mating surface on the underside of the frizzen must be finished.
Then, positioning the frizzen in the proper place and clamping it so that it does not move is required.

Next the hole for the screw is drilled using the tap drill, completely thru the lockplate, the frizzen and the bridle.

Anyway, I found that just the slightest error in holding the lockplate square with the drills chuck will produce a hole that breaks out the side of the bridle. Once this happens the only solutions are to order a new frizzen and pan casting or, convert the lock to Percussion by changing the hammer, cutting off the pan and filing out the remnant to mate with a nipple drum. If you do this you also have to plug the holes for the frizzens feather spring.

 

[4deer]

When I first started building MLers in 1978. . .It's correct info that the "dimpled" drill locations aren't necessarily in the right location....found this out the hard way and had to plug some holes in the lockplate. The tumbler, sear and fly heat treating can be a problem if not done properly.

I find it hard to believe that in all the years that have past since 1978 that the drill locations still have not been fixed. About how many years ago did you experience this problem flashpanner? Has anyone who has built one of lock kits recently also found this to be a problem? If this problem is still persistent in the lock kits I think I would want to forget about the lock kits.

Hardening the frizzen does not worry me to much. I actually did that on my CVA frizzen, but after reading the directions in the book The Gunsmith of Greenville County where he said about using the Kasenit power I think I need to redo the hardening.

I was sort of thinking that maybe this would make a good project for me while I save up for the barrel and stock. Of course I would not want to wreak the lock kit and ending up buying a pre-assembled, which after hearing you guys talk sounds like there is a great possibility of that happening to me. So I'll have to think this over some more.

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[Vaino]

I don't know if the drill "dimples" are still mislocated. I don't think that Chambers uses the "dimples" but instead has drill jigs for repeated, accurate drilling of all the holes. Perhaps the "dimples" were corrected when Chambers started to produce the Silers. I bought my kits from Bud Siler. Order a Siler kit and you'll learn a lot.....Fred

 

[bioprof]

I'm going to go out on a limb here.

The first lock that I built was a wheelock from rough castings and the second was a snaphaunce, which are much more complicated than a flintlock. The satisfaction of building one yourself is immense. If a person like me with little or no formal training in metalworking can build a wheelock from castings, then just about anybody should be able to build a flintlock.

Having said that, the learning curve concerning how to heat treat springs and frizzens is very steep. I would think that if you ordered a lock set from Jim Chambers, you could talk him into heat treating the springs and the frizzen for a price. If you screw something up, you can always buy a new part. The fun in building isn't saving money, but it is in being able to say that you built it yourself.

I think every builder should put together a lock and a set trigger from a parts set just for the experience. I say go for it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[ol vern]

I have done a chambers lock kit. His completed locks or his kits are real bargain

Chambers lock kits come with a clear set of building instructions. If you can read & follow
his directions you will wind up with a good working lock.

Build one for the experience,build it for the challenge,or build it for the bragging rights.

Forget about saving any money.

 

[J.D.]

Build one for the experience,build it for the challenge,or build it for the bragging rights.

Forget about saving any money.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[MSW]

well, i'll risk being a curmegoen (sp?) and aggree in part with Birddog: beware the false economy.

having said that, OldProf's point is well taken: it's a real thrill to build something yourself and have it work.

if you're considering building your own lock from a kit, you'll most surely be building another flintlock, so you may want to resign yourself to the notion of building a lock to be interchangeable with the Siler.

good luck with your project.

 

[ehoff]

I hate to bring this up, but unless you have the right tools you'll have add them to the price of the lock kit. The taps 8-32 & 6-40 they should be carbon steel in case you break one in the hole. Tap drills for the above. A letter N drill and a 5/16 chucking reamer for the tumber hole in the lock plate & cutting oil.
Now some may say the reamer isn't necessary, but as my machine shop teacher beat in to our heads at tech school "to get a smooth true hole its either got to be drilled undersized and reameded to size or bored".

 

[4deer]

Thanks for mentioning that ehoff. My brother has a nice set of Mac taps so I am good there. But the chucking reamer is something I do not have. Is it something that sears or a hardware store would carry?