Just joined the forum and am in need of wisdom

[PowderSchooner]

I joined the forum a little over a day ago. That being said I will start off by saying my experience in Muzzleloading hunting and shooting is very little. I have never hunted with a Muzzleloader, I have shot a few smoothbore flintlock British and French reproductions and I have shot an 1841 Mississippi Percussion. I definitely like flintlocks more than Percussion and I like Muzzleloaders more than modern firearms. I have been searching the forum for answers to my questions and I have confused myself by taking in too much information. So I will start off by saying this. I am looking at getting a flintlock rifle for hunting White Tail deer. Judging by posts on the forum .50 or .54 sounds good to me. I just want to know good brands to buy a rifle from whether they are out of business or not. I'm not knowledgeable enough to build a kit so a finished rifle is what I'm aiming for. Also I don't like synthetic furniture like some deerstalkers have, wood is good. Secondly, I would like a smoothbore for Turkey and small game. I have a local shop that is selling a .69 caliber New England Fowler by a company called Middlesex Village Trading Company. It is new they just ordered it for a customer who changed their mind about purchasing it so it's never been fired. If anyone knows anything about the quality of this company's firearms that would be helpful. I reached out to them but was only told that they are inspected throughly from India and shoot well. So no first hand account there. If anyone has used a fowler like this from this company or any smoothbore from this company your account of its quality will be greatly appreciated. Lastly I would like to get a flintlock "squirrel gun" a small bore rifle. I don't know if it should be .32 or .36 so if I could get some first hand accounts on the calibers you all use that would be greatly appreciated. Currently I have no powder and can't find any locally. I put myself on a waiting list for 3FG powder in May but I'm not assured any as first on the list get their quantities filled up to 25lbs and I don't know how much powder will be coming in. If anyone knows a place where I can get 2FG and 3FG powder that would be helpful. I thank everyone who replies and shares their opinions and advice, all of it in any format is greatly appreciated. My apologies for the book I just wrote. I also don't know the dimensions of the .69 cal so I emailed the company again they will get back to me first thing tomorrow morning and I can give that information too. Thanks to all once again.

 

[tenngun]

I’m going to recommend the Great Plains rifle in flint .54 as best alround rifle. It looks much like a Hawken and very smooth worker. Short of that you next bet is a kit made gun in an historic style.
An Indian made smooth bore like the loyalist arms Northwest trade gun or the French Tulle fusil de chase is a great by in its price range. The next step from that is the Pedersoli trade gun. As a smoothbore. These smoothbores are great for deer or up to elk hunting, but they are fifty yard guns.
Traditional and pedersoli makes small bore rifles.
Sitting Fox offers guns in the white, they just need sanding and barrel finish. And offers federal style small bore rifles and southren Mountian rifles, these will run in the $1500 range. They won’t be as perfect as a true custom but can turn out a gun as good as most production guns

 

[PowderSchooner]

I’m going to recommend the Great Plains rifle in flint .54 as best alround rifle. It looks much like a Hawken and very smooth worker. Short of that you next bet is a kit made gun in an historic style.
An Indian made smooth bore like the loyalist arms Northwest trade gun or the French Tulle fusil de chase is a great by in its price range. The next step from that is the Pedersoli trade gun. As a smoothbore. These smoothbores are great for deer or up to elk hunting, but they are fifty yard guns.
Traditional and pedersoli makes small bore rifles.
Sitting Fox offers guns in the white, they just need sanding and barrel finish. And offers federal style small bore rifles and southren Mountian rifles, these will run in the $1500 range. They won’t be as perfect as a true custom but can turn out a gun as good as most production guns

Does length matter for a rifle ? I called my friends father who has friends with large ML firearm collections and one of them is thinking of parting ways with a .50 cal 46" barrel rifle with a 1/56 twist rifling, OAL is 62". If he isn't willing to part with the rifle after I talk to him about it I will definitely look into a Great Plains Rifle. What manufacturer makes them ? I see Lyman, Traditions and some other brands like Armi Sport and CVA. Which one is the best out of them all ? Thanks for the reply.

 

[tnlonghunter]

I'd say lots of options will fit your needs. It all depends on your budget. The .54 will probably be a little better, but a .50 will do just fine for deer. Similarly, either a .32 or .36 will be good on small game. Some people have strong opinions, but I'm not real sure there's a tremendous difference for someone just starting out. I cannot speak to smooth bores.

In terms of makers, The Great Plains mentioned above is a good, reliable rifle that will do just fine. Thompson Center and Pedersoli also make very good guns in terms of factory-production. That said, a new Great Plains is not all that much cheaper than some of the used rifles that are built one-at-a-time from parts and sell here in the classifieds. Those can be very good values.

Powder is hard to come by for all of us. You'll almost certainly have to order in bulk and pay hazmat fees. Right now, there's not an American company making real black powder (we're all hoping for GOEX to be back online in 2023). Til then, the good stuff comes from Switzerland and Germany, but I don't know how the conflict in Ukraine will affect powder supply, if at all. Just keep looking every couple of days and get it when you can. Good places are: Travellers Antiques, Powder Valley, Grafs, Maine Powder House.

 

[Daryl Crawford]

Lyman are solid performers. As to your question on small bore, I don't think you can go wrong with a 32, 36, or 40. I have a .32 CVA that shoots well.
As for powder, go online to powder valley and get a few pounds in different granulations.

 

[PowderSchooner]

Lyman are solid performers. As to your question on small bore, I don't think you can go wrong with a 32, 36, or 40. I have a .32 CVA that shoots well.
As for powder, go online to powder valley and get a few pounds in different granulations.

Thanks I will look up Powder Valley and see what they have in stock. I would like to start getting everything soon so I can get a lot of practice in so that when I go hunting in the fall I will be making well placed shots and not missing or horribly wounding animals 100% of the time.

 

[tenngun]

Does length matter for a rifle ? I called my friends father who has friends with large ML firearm collections and one of them is thinking of parting ways with a .50 cal 46" barrel rifle with a 1/56 twist rifling, OAL is 62". If he isn't willing to part with the rifle after I talk to him about it I will definitely look into a Great Plains Rifle. What manufacturer makes them ? I see Lyman, Traditions and some other brands like Armi Sport and CVA. Which one is the best out of them all ? Thanks for the reply.

From 26” to 42” an inch adds about 10 fps. Not really enough to worry about.
The big advantage is longer sighting radius. Longer barrels are a little more steady on the point and absorb recoil better. To my eye a longer barrel looks nicer.

 

[nchawkeye]

Where do you live?? Frankly what you need is for someone to take you to the range and let you shoot some of their rifles, this way you can make a better decision on your purchase...

 

[PowderSchooner]

Where do you live?? Frankly what you need is for someone to take you to the range and let you shoot some of their rifles, this way you can make a better decision on your purchase...

I live in Chestertown, Maryland. I have shot muzzleloaders before. That is why I know my preference is flintlock over percussion. I really wanted to know what good manufacturers are out there so that I didn't buy a cheap junk rifle or smoothbore. I have fired and shouldered muzzleloaders just didn't know their manufacturers. That is why I asked for people's personal opinions on the firearms they use that meet my descriptions of what I am looking for.

 

[SmoothboreMurph]

I live in Chestertown, Maryland. I have shot muzzleloaders before. That is why I know my preference is flintlock over percussion. I really wanted to know what good manufacturers are out there so that I didn't buy a cheap junk rifle or smoothbore. I have fired and shouldered muzzleloaders just didn't know their manufacturers. That is why I asked for people's personal opinions on the firearms they use that meet my descriptions of what I am looking for.

I live right across the Chester from you over in the Centreville area. I you need a place to shoot or some muzzleloaders to shoot I'd be more than happy to help out. I've already had three forum members here in Maryland come shoot at my farm to get a feel for what they wanted. I have a small arsenal. I have a .75 cal Brown Bess (Pedersoli), I have an Indian Made Brown Bess Carbine .75 cal that came from Veteran Arms I believe and is close to the Middlesex Company guns. I have a .54 cal Mortimer Rifle (Pedersoli), I also have two percussion rifles a .45 cal H&A Underhammer and a .50 Traditions Kentucky Rifle. My oldest rifle is a 1790 Brown Bess Rifle that was special made in Liege Belgium for the British Army Light Infantry which is close to the 1776 Rifle in resemblance also in .75 cal. Sorry for the rant, I also have 3 friends of mine who will let you shoot their rifles and smoothies. They have a couple Fusil de Chasse smoothies and they have Pedersoli Jaeger and Rifle shoppe 1803 Harpers Ferry Rifles. Now that I'm done my little informational tour I will also try to answer your question as best as I can. Firstly .50 and .54 are both good. As tengun suggested the Great Plains is a good medium length gun just like my mortimer but definitely lighter. If you want a longrifle like the typical depiction of the frontiersman of Olden times then that Rifle you have a lead on is nice ( I've been looking into getting a nice longrifle myself ). Secondly Thompson Center makes decent .50 and .54 Flintlocks if you can find one on either this site or Gunbroker. They usually go from $300-$900. It depends on how long you think you can manage for a rifle. In the deer woods if your wooded area you hunt is thick and dense with overgrowth shorter is better. If shooting over open terrain or clear woods a longer Rifle could be preferred. Offhand shooting is easier with a longrifle and so is sight acquisition. Now onto the smoothbore fowler. My Brown Bess Carbine is Indian made and I will give you my review of it. I have taken one deer it was a medium sized doe. I shot behind the shoulder tipped her over (.735 ball and .010 patch). The powder load was 120g FFG powder which is stout to say the least. When I was getting used to it on my range I fired about 30 round balls out of it over 3 days all loaded with 120g of FFG powder. I have also hunted small game consisting of 18 squirrels and 7 Rabbits as well as 3 Whistlepigs. All loaded with about 2oz of No4 shot and 120g FFG. When practicing shot patterns I loaded 3.5oz of No4 shot and 120g FFG in it and it shot fine and I loaded it 27 times that day and fired it. Finally Turkey loads were my most stout 4 oz of No4 shot and 120g FFG no problems. Needless to say they can take it down, digest it and regurgitate like nothing. My Pedersoli Bess is the same but rust 10x worst than my India made Bess which imo is something I'm disappointed with in my top of the line Bess. So if your afraid of rusting the Indian guns won't rust badly. ( I also mean rusting from sitting in a room not from powder, clean your firearms immediately and throughly after use ). .69 caliber is pretty common as well as .62 caliber where as .66, .72 and .75 aren't. Track of the Wolf will have everything you need for it. BTW if that is a Middlesex New England Folwer like you say it is a long one. It has a 51" barrel making it just shy of 6ft long so take that into consideration. For small fast moving game a shorter smoothbore can be sung on target quicker. I have used my 42" Barrel Brown Bess Pedersoli on squirrels and found my 26" barrel Bess Carbine quicker but the 42" took time to get good with. ( As you mentioned you need practice). Finally your squirrel Rifle. My Grandfather used to hunt squirrels with his .25 cal sawhandle pistol he made in woodshop in 1958. I personally don't have a squirrel rifle as I use mostly smoothbores. My friend has a .36 caliber flintlock custom built and it does leave good sized holes in squirrels so you'll need to hit the upper body close to the head to not ruin all the meat. His father uses a Dixie Gun Works .32 cal and leaves a smaller hole but still large for a squirrel. .32 & .36 calibers are good for early season when they are sitting in the tree branches eating their food and are stationary. .36 I've seen push through the foliage better than .32 cal. In the latter part of the season smooth bore "fowlers"&"shotguns" reign Supreme because squirrels and Rabbits are fast moving trying to find food and you'll need to get them on the run. Since you're a beginner I'd advise practicing at 30yards with your rifles and then back to 50 yards. You'll want to be able to consistently hit center of your target at 30 before you go to 50. As for your smoothie practice at 25 and 50 yards and try to get tight groups you'll have to experiment. Powder Valley has FG, FFG and FFFG Shutzen powder in stock I'd suggest you pick up about 5lbs of FFg and FFFg since you'll be doing a lot of shooting and powder load testing. Don't be a stranger either if you seriously want to take me offer one shooting on my farm just PM me and we can get you set up, I'm serious about that offer like I've said I've had other forum members come over I don't mind one bit.

 

[Eutycus]

I had intended to "graduate" up to a larger caliber someday. A .50 is as large as I presently have.But one has to figure that a larger caliber means more "ingredients" (powder, lube,caps and lead), which translates to more expenses.(especially lately) Nothing wrong with smaller calibers. Plus I don't think I'll run into a Bull Elk or Buffalo here in South Texas any time soon.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I’d take him up on that generous offer and go shoot some.

 

[PowderSchooner]

I live right across the Chester from you over in the Centreville area. I you need a place to shoot or some muzzleloaders to shoot I'd be more than happy to help out. I've already had three forum members here in Maryland come shoot at my farm to get a feel for what they wanted. I have a small arsenal. I have a .75 cal Brown Bess (Pedersoli), I have an Indian Made Brown Bess Carbine .75 cal that came from Veteran Arms I believe and is close to the Middlesex Company guns. I have a .54 cal Mortimer Rifle (Pedersoli), I also have two percussion rifles a .45 cal H&A Underhammer and a .50 Traditions Kentucky Rifle. My oldest rifle is a 1790 Brown Bess Rifle that was special made in Liege Belgium for the British Army Light Infantry which is close to the 1776 Rifle in resemblance also in .75 cal. Sorry for the rant, I also have 3 friends of mine who will let you shoot their rifles and smoothies. They have a couple Fusil de Chasse smoothies and they have Pedersoli Jaeger and Rifle shoppe 1803 Harpers Ferry Rifles. Now that I'm done my little informational tour I will also try to answer your question as best as I can. Firstly .50 and .54 are both good. As tengun suggested the Great Plains is a good medium length gun just like my mortimer but definitely lighter. If you want a longrifle like the typical depiction of the frontiersman of Olden times then that Rifle you have a lead on is nice ( I've been looking into getting a nice longrifle myself ). Secondly Thompson Center makes decent .50 and .54 Flintlocks if you can find one on either this site or Gunbroker. They usually go from $300-$900. It depends on how long you think you can manage for a rifle. In the deer woods if your wooded area you hunt is thick and dense with overgrowth shorter is better. If shooting over open terrain or clear woods a longer Rifle could be preferred. Offhand shooting is easier with a longrifle and so is sight acquisition. Now onto the smoothbore fowler. My Brown Bess Carbine is Indian made and I will give you my review of it. I have taken one deer it was a medium sized doe. I shot behind the shoulder tipped her over (.735 ball and .010 patch). The powder load was 120g FFG powder which is stout to say the least. When I was getting used to it on my range I fired about 30 round balls out of it over 3 days all loaded with 120g of FFG powder. I have also hunted small game consisting of 18 squirrels and 7 Rabbits as well as 3 Whistlepigs. All loaded with about 2oz of No4 shot and 120g FFG. When practicing shot patterns I loaded 3.5oz of No4 shot and 120g FFG in it and it shot fine and I loaded it 27 times that day and fired it. Finally Turkey loads were my most stout 4 oz of No4 shot and 120g FFG no problems. Needless to say they can take it down, digest it and regurgitate like nothing. My Pedersoli Bess is the same but rust 10x worst than my India made Bess which imo is something I'm disappointed with in my top of the line Bess. So if your afraid of rusting the Indian guns won't rust badly. ( I also mean rusting from sitting in a room not from powder, clean your firearms immediately and throughly after use ). .69 caliber is pretty common as well as .62 caliber where as .66, .72 and .75 aren't. Track of the Wolf will have everything you need for it. BTW if that is a Middlesex New England Folwer like you say it is a long one. It has a 51" barrel making it just shy of 6ft long so take that into consideration. For small fast moving game a shorter smoothbore can be sung on target quicker. I have used my 42" Barrel Brown Bess Pedersoli on squirrels and found my 26" barrel Bess Carbine quicker but the 42" took time to get good with. ( As you mentioned you need practice). Finally your squirrel Rifle. My Grandfather used to hunt squirrels with his .25 cal sawhandle pistol he made in woodshop in 1958. I personally don't have a squirrel rifle as I use mostly smoothbores. My friend has a .36 caliber flintlock custom built and it does leave good sized holes in squirrels so you'll need to hit the upper body close to the head to not ruin all the meat. His father uses a Dixie Gun Works .32 cal and leaves a smaller hole but still large for a squirrel. .32 & .36 calibers are good for early season when they are sitting in the tree branches eating their food and are stationary. .36 I've seen push through the foliage better than .32 cal. In the latter part of the season smooth bore "fowlers"&"shotguns" reign Supreme because squirrels and Rabbits are fast moving trying to find food and you'll need to get them on the run. Since you're a beginner I'd advise practicing at 30yards with your rifles and then back to 50 yards. You'll want to be able to consistently hit center of your target at 30 before you go to 50. As for your smoothie practice at 25 and 50 yards and try to get tight groups you'll have to experiment. Powder Valley has FG, FFG and FFFG Shutzen powder in stock I'd suggest you pick up about 5lbs of FFg and FFFg since you'll be doing a lot of shooting and powder load testing. Don't be a stranger either if you seriously want to take me offer one shooting on my farm just PM me and we can get you set up, I'm serious about that offer like I've said I've had other forum members come over I don't mind one bit.

Wow you really hit the nail on the head, you explained everything I asked for and needed to know. Amazing to be honest, here I am same age as you and don't even know a sixteenth of what you know. I asked the Middlesex Company contact and he said Veteran Arms uses the same Indian Manufacturers that they do. So if your Indian made can hole up to it I'm guessing most can. Although I'd still like to get some input on someone who has specifically used the New England Folwer. I might just have to take you up on the offer by the way since you are basically my next door neighbor. Since your profile says Price do you live near the Blue Memorial Travel stop ? If so are you on the side 301 North by the MD-DE railroad or the side of 301 South like your passing 305 and Centreville backroads ? Thanks by the way.

 

[PowderSchooner]

I’d take him up on that generous offer and go shoot some.

Yea really no kidding since he is basically my next door neighbor only about 10-15 miles away at the most I'd reckon.

 

[SmoothboreMurph]

Wow you really hit the nail on the head, you explained everything I asked for and needed to know. Amazing to be honest, here I am same age as you and don't even know a sixteenth of what you know. I asked the Middlesex Company contact and he said Veteran Arms uses the same Indian Manufacturers that they do. So if your Indian made can hole up to it I'm guessing most can. Although I'd still like to get some input on someone who has specifically used the New England Folwer. I might just have to take you up on the offer by the way since you are basically my next door neighbor. Since your profile says Price do you live near the Blue Memorial Travel stop ? If so are you on the side 301 North by the MD-DE railroad or the side of 301 South like your passing 305 and Centreville backroads ? Thanks by the way.

My farm is actually across 301 North from the Bay Area Rest Stop. It straddles MD 834 and Carvelle Price Road which also straddles the MD-DE railroad. Thanks for the PM by the way with the phone number and your name it makes it easier to coordinate that way the last two members I had to coordinate with over the forum PM and it took a long time to get responses back. I know this is off topic but Judging by your profile picture being the HMS Sultana copy built back in 01 my father saved a newspaper about the ship being built and your last name comes up on the list of workers in Chestertown. Did one of your family members work on that ship when it was constructed and laid down in the Chester. My Grandfather was a Foreman for the crew that made the rigging and mizzen chains and my father worked with him. Just figured I'd ask since it sounds like something that might click together. Also your first name is the same as mine lol.

 

[PowderSchooner]

My farm is actually across 301 North from the Bay Area Rest Stop. It straddles MD 834 and Carvelle Price Road which also straddles the MD-DE railroad. Thanks for the PM by the way with the phone number and your name it makes it easier to coordinate that way the last two members I had to coordinate with over the forum PM and it took a long time to get responses back. I know this is off topic but Judging by your profile picture being the HMS Sultana copy built back in 01 my father saved a newspaper about the ship being built and your last name comes up on the list of workers in Chestertown. Did one of your family members work on that ship when it was constructed and laid down in the Chester. My Grandfather was a Foreman for the crew that made the rigging and mizzen chains and my father worked with him. Just figured I'd ask since it sounds like something that might click together. Also your first name is the same as mine lol.

You'd be right to guess that. My Grandfather and Father were both on a carpentry crew that laid out all interior structural beams below deck. They also laid the top deck and help with securing the masts. They both got to take a ride on its second voyage down the bay I've been on it twice. Definitely recommend boarding for a sail once in your life. I was too young to remember it get laid down it's first time but I do remember it's second time being set down in the Chester after Hurricane Irene damaged it a bit.

 

[toot]

Welcome.

 

[Grenadier1758]

First of all, I concur with all the advice you have been getting.

Where will you be hunting? How will you be hunting? Those answer will be pertinent to the long rifle from the friends collection. The long barrel length is only an adverse item if the rifle feels awkward when put to your shoulder. I would really give that long rifle some serious consideration.

The Middlesex muskets can be good and can be made into an acceptable smoothbored fowling gun. In my experience, the Trade Gun from Loyalist Arms is a better gun, but not by much. The India manufactured guns will be heavier and not as handy a fowling gun as one made by TVM (Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading). But there will be a wait for one of those. Used ones show up, so be prepared to shop.

In the meantime, @PowderSchooner, @SmoothboreMurph's offer is worth following up on.

Be very care. We have found traditional muzzleloading to be very addictive (enjoyable). So be prepared for this becoming a lifelong endeavor.

 

[david w]

My suggestion on a small bore is .36 caliber. I use 000 buckshot in mine and find it accurate with pillow ticking. I have owned different large caliber rifles, 50, 54, 58, and 62. They were in percussion except the .62 Hawkens flintlock I swayed away from percussion a while back. I found a tuned lock can be as reliable as percussion. I took a deer once and had been in light rain all day. The buck finally showed up, I took aim and fired. It had a small delay, but it fired! As far as powder goes, I would stick with 3fg as the best all around powder. A long time ago, I listened to the jargon that 2fg must be used in rifles .50 and larger. That simply isn't true. I use 90 gr. 3fg in my .62 for both the main charge and the pan. For the flint, I use English black flints

 

[Des52]

I have two Middlesex smoothbores, a Bess carbine and a double barrel .58 pistol. Both shoot reliably and spark great. I also have a flint .36 Pedersoli Frontier, it's the most accurate rifle I own. I don't think they offer it in .32 or .36 anymore but they come up for sale here every so often.