just now getting back into traditional muzzleloading, advice

[Howie1968]

Hello all, Not a total newbie to traditional muzzleloading but its been 30 years. ive spent the last 30 years bowhunting only and was a hunting guide. now its my time. i mainly hunt big hogs (ill post a picture or to for refernce) deer and i do go elk hunting every year. At the moment i do not have a traditional black powder rifle but will be buying one soon. i really want a .54 caliber. for what i do i like big heavy bullets however would like to use patched round balls for deer and thin skinned game. my ideal gun is a thompson center renegade in .54 or a hawken in .54 however lyaman has a .54 in a trade rifle and a deerstalker in .54. im tempted on the lyman because the shorter barrel less weight. i hunt extremeley thick areas East Texas has some serious thickets. a shorter gun would be perfect. i totally understand the limitations of black powder and acceptable hunting ranges. ive killed 84 deer wityh archery equipment and in 30 years of bowhunting have only shot 3 times past 25 yards. with that being said i will limit my shots to 60 or so yards. i feel confident using a trad muzzleloader at that range. i have all the necessities powder flask capper etc. i understand ill have to work a load up my main objective will be accuracy. my main question is has anyone killed big hogs with patched roundballs? when i was younger i used conicals, Also what powders are you all using i used to use pyrodex RS back in the day im seeing new powders such as clean shot tripple 7 blackhorn? also i used to use CCI 11M caps, like ive said ive been away a long time any advice is appreciated
these are the size of hogs i kill this is me in the picture
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me guiding tink owner of tinks 69, these pics are just for refernce to show the size of hogs im talking about, i know longer guide
[URL=http://s29.photobucket.com/user/howie1968/media/016-1.jpg.html]

 

[BrownBear]

We own all the guns you mention, and the Deerstalker 54 is by far the handiest and quickest handling. My wife is a serious hunter too, and with a rack full of muzzleloaders to choose from for casual shooting, she always goes back to the Deerstalker when it's time to hunt. Super accurate in deliberate shooting for anything so short and light, but very quick handling. I'd use it more for hunting too based on the casual shooting, but I'd have to climb over the top of her to get at it.

My pick from the rack is worth putting on your radar, but you'll have to look for it on the used market. It's the TC Big Boar, basically a 58 caliber version of the Renegade. For your big hogs and elk, you might like it even better than the Deerstalker. We have five 58 calibers in the house, the rest of them bigger and heavier and more "accurate" on paper. But the Big Boar gets most of the hunting fun.

 

[Rifleman1776]

That is a serious sized hog. :shocked2:
Much has been written about round balls and elk being a deadly combo. But those hogs are another thing altogether. I suspect a .54 round ball will do the number on them but am interested to see if other ml hog hunters chime in on this.
And, welcome back to the ml insanity.

 

[Howie1968]

thank you men, ive thought of the .58 as well. My personal opinion and experience guiding is the bigger and heavier bullet the better. im getting a .54 im not against casting my own bullets and making them a little harder, soft lead is great on thin skins but on big boars penetration all the way through is vital to get blood on the ground. your dealing with hogs that lay in the mud in Texas it gets hot so the mud gets baked on and is like a rock then you have to go through hair thick calous where hogs rub ( most people call it a shield or armour but basically it is a thick calous, then into the muscle then vitals and back out the other side. i believe in hunting ethically but a .54 cal roundball is around 220 gr and if you go with the sligghtly bigger ball maybe 230 gr. i appreciate yo mens wisdom i found the right forumn for me!!!

 

[Howie1968]

mr. brown bear what is the trigger like on the .54 deer stalker?

 

[Howie1968]

you see i hunt for the most dominate boar in a given area i really like the challenge of a 7 plus year old dominate boar. i feel with a trad muzzleloader ill even do alot better will give me an extended range

 

[BrownBear]

Ahhhh, you sly devil, you! :wink:

Moving right to the trigger! I'm pretty much the same way- If I don't like the trigger, I don't like the gun.

The single triggers on all production rifles like the Deerstalker and Renegade are just fine for hunting- a little bit of take-up slack, fairly crisp break, but a lot of follow through. Most break in the 5#-8# range. Certainly not ideal for range rats, but good enough for hunting.

One thing in favor of the Renegade or Big Boar, provided it's the double-trigger version. I almost never use set triggers for hunts, but the test is the un-set single trigger. Basically I don't like the factory versions from TC (or Lyman for that matter). But if you'll drop $50 on a RE Davis Deerslayer trigger you'll find a match made in heaven. It's a straight drop-in replacement for the factory double trigger, so no smithing required. Yeah, it's got the set trigger too, but ignore it. That single, un-set trigger is a thing of beauty. Crisp, "just right" for hunting at around 3#, and almost zero takeup or follow-through.

While you're coursing through web pages pondering your decision, here is a fine resource right here on this site. Kinda fun to noodle around and compare ball weights.

 

[Howie1968]

Thanks mr. Brownbear ive been lurking for some time i had to join ive got alot of reading to do!!!

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

March 6 2016 I shot my first hog ever. I used 80gr goex 2fg and a .490" round ball. It was a 47-50 yard shot through the shoulder which dropped it on the spot.

 

[Lonegun1894]

I hunt them with both .50 and .54, and I prefer the .54. I don't think you can go wrong with any of your choices, but I bet you will eventually go with a flint gun, so may want to consider that if you haven't yet. Also, I understand wanting more penetration, but since you're thinking .54 already, I doubt you'll need to cast your RBs hard to get it. I cast mine out of whatever soft(ish) lead I happen to have when I need to cast more, if that is pure, then perfect, but if it happens to be range scrap that is just a bit harder than pure, it has never caused a problem. But don't underestimate how much a .54 RB will penetrate.

 

[Boomerang]

A 54 cal lead hearing aid will drop them on the spot. :thumbsup:

 

[Skychief]

Welcome Howie!

Judging by the pictures here, I think those type of boars would make a great target for a 62 caliber ball. :thumbsup:

Perhaps fired from a short barreled smoothbore of some sort. :hmm:

Just my take, Skychief

 

[Cowboy]

We own all the guns you mention, and the Deerstalker 54 is by far the handiest and quickest handling. My wife is a serious hunter too, and with a rack full of muzzleloaders to choose from for casual shooting, she always goes back to the Deerstalker when it's time to hunt. Super accurate in deliberate shooting for anything so short and light, but very quick handling. I'd use it more for hunting too based on the casual shooting, but I'd have to climb over the top of her to get at it.

:metoo: My vote would be for the Lyman Deerstalker in .54. It is short barreled and light to carry. Going through the underbrush, that would definitely be my pick.

As far as the knock down power, the .54 is more than adequate. If it can bring down a Griz, I see no problem with it bringing down a Hog.

I own the Deerstalker in .54 and love mine! Don't hunt anymore but if I were to hunt in the environment that you described, I would be more than confident in using it. My pick would be the Lyman Deerstalker.

Good luck and good hunting!
Respectfully, Cowboy :hatsoff:

 

[Howie1968]

Thank you men, you all have reassured what i was thinking. 90 percent of the fun is going to be working up loads and collecting data, while the capabilities of the rifles are beyound the 50-60 yard mark as a hunter i pride myself at getting as close as i can with the option to harvest. i preach all the time that hunting dont always mean killing. i was looking at load data and the. 54 with a good 425 grain conical at about 1300 fps is equivelent or slightly better then the old 45-70 400 grain loads, that will be planty of medicine to send the biggest hog or elk to my freezer

 

[robinsroost]

Howie, Welcome to the fold. It looks like those piney rooters have an awful lot of Russian blood, like the ones I hunted in Florida. I have a .54 caliber GPR, flint, and I agree with your choices. Real black powder, either 2Fg or 3Fg, work better and more reliably than substitutes, is less corrosive and easier to clean up.......robin :wink:

 

[Kapow]

Big hogs = big fun with muzzle-loading rifles!

My question is how traditional do you want to go? Ideally a .58 roundball is the right medicine for boars.

That will mean finding a .58 replacement barrel for a Thompson Center Hawken or CVA mountain rifle .

I use a Lyman GPR with the fast twist Hunter barrel. 1:30. I cast my own Lyman Great Plains bullet 450 grains and shoot them with 100gn FFg. It is bad news for big hogs.


I don't find it to be too much of a burden to carry and with its upgraded triggers from Davis, it is deadly past 100 yards.

 

[Howie1968]

nice hog, im spending alot of time looking into every aspect, here in east texas muzzleloading isnt very popular however i will have to order everything online nobody even stocks pyrodex here. i alsmost punched the buy now on several i found a TC new englander .54 for 310.00 with some accesories. id like a 58 ive been searching so i may end up getting the lyman .54 deer stalker. my only wish is that it had a faster twist barrel, maybe im not giving patched roundballs enough credit, i really want to shoot a big heavy conical. however a 230 grain patched roundball to the heart of big hog or deer would work well. for 2 weeks ive searched every site i could find for buying traditional muzzleloaders. im begining to think just buy brand new and be done. lyman is a great company and been around a long time

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Can go no wrong with a 50 54 or 58cal. I own them all so what ever fits my fancy for that day, I take :haha:

My first hog hunt was the 6th of march and I took this hog with a new .50cal flintlock I picked up 6 days prior to the hunt.

That .490" ball went through both shoulders and knocked her down on the spot.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Howie,

A TC New Englander or the Lyman Deerstalker have pretty short barrels, 26" and 24", so either would suffice for your brush needs in .54 caliber.

Both will handle a good quality conical, and would suffice for elk and smaller type deer out to 60 yards, no worries. So that leaves your boar.

You can find a pretty good range of conical weights, so less whomp on your shoulder when going after whitetail or mulies, and more when going for elk and boar when it's needed. IF you get a 1:48 twist, you might even try patched round ball on deer.

There is a further option. Consider casting your own, harder, conicals. :wink:

The problem as I see it is getting a bullet that will perform for you, on the large and dangerous boar from the traditional rifle. Now, you could go to .58 BUT the aftermarket barrels now available seem to assume you're using a .570 round ball and don't shoot conicals well...and that round ball is only 275 grains. :shocked2:

Now if you found a conical that shot well from your .54..., and you got a mold for that type conical, you could opt for an alloy, like wheel weights, instead of pure lead. The overall weight of the bullet would drop by only a few grains, BUT the hardness of the bullet would increase, thus giving you a slightly higher muzzle velocity over the pure lead, AND deeper penetration on a boar over the all lead.

I think that's the answer to your problem. :grin:

LD

 

[BrownBear]

Gotta really watch it using alloys for conicals. Those like the REAL and TC Maxi have larger "driving" bands that have to cut into the rifling when you start them. It doesn't require much alloy at all to force you to use a big hammer, strong arm and a running start to seat them into the bore. For wheel weights, probably ought to bring along a beefy friend and drop them off a tower to get a real running start for that hammer swing.:wink:

Haven't used a conical on game myself, much as I've shot them. But I've been in on the dressing and butchering when friends have used them. I have a pretty good idea what was shot too, because I do most of the casting for our crowd- all the way from load development to the eventual hunts. A little bit of tin (probably less than 3%) will certainly help fill out the molds, but doesn't harden the lead appreciably.

My conclusion from all this? The Lyman 54 cal Great Plains bullet (450 grains) is one of the most accurate, especially when loaded with a lubed felt wad between it and the powder.

With it's big flat nose, the GP is also one of the most devastating on game.

In a whole bunch of different rifles, best accuracy started at around 80 grains of 2F, whether the Goex or Pyrodex, 70 grains of Triple Seven 2f.

There doesn't seem to be a "top end" to accurate charges. If you're man enough to shoot them, charges over 100 grains will certainly deliver the goods. Once upon a time I mounted a scope on a rifle for the ultimate accuracy test out at 100 yards and beyond. Never got beyond 120 grains, because I scoped myself three times with that. In a row. Firing a single group. Got smarter. :wink: