Just ordered my 28 gauge/.54 cal. Straight Rifled barrel

[Gobbletn]

I have just put my order in from Brad Emig at Cabin Creek Muzzleloading. After much research, I'm getting a 28 gauge/ .54 caliber, straight rifled, swamped barrel. It will be in his Colonial Virginia Rifle. I am an avid turkey hunter (thus shotgun) and want to deer hunt also and desire to be as consistent with the lead ball as possible. Historically It was fairly common for straight rifling but I have no prior experience. I will update after the kit arrives and I put her together. I'm a few months away...Anyone had experience/ desire with a similar barrel?

 

[roundball]

"...Historically It was fairly common for straight rifling..."

I'm aware of straight rifling, but never heard it was commonplace...is there a particular time frame or geography you're referring to?

What was the number of grooves commonly used / did you order for your barrel?

 

[Gobbletn]

Can't be positive tonight but will try and confirm both questions but I feel sure it will have 6 groves .016 deep round bottom... Colerain barrel company. Good questions that I need to have answered. I originally was not as interested in being so historically correct but after attending the CLA in Lexington this past weekend made me interested in staying fairly correct. Many different builders verified it as a barrel used often in the past but not recreated very often now. A Rice barrel co. Representative agreed it was used but not used much now.

 

[rich pierce]

There are a few examples of originals with such barrels, a Beck comes to mind. There are theories for the straight rifling but not much period description of why they were used. Some guess they were believed to help load a smoothie with a round ball with a patch, giving the fouling somewhere to go. Some guess they were believed to keep the shot going straighter. it's a lot of work to hand rifle a barrel so they muct have believed it did something. Cool project, always fun to do something different.

 

[Gobbletn]

Yes, from what I can tell, it is like throwing a knuckle ball vs a curve. You have better control maybe 25-50 yds. further than smooth bore while using a LB. Cleaning is a added bonus. Just something a little different that I am excited to try to see if the "old technology" might be practical. The idea is to get the best barrel for two types of hunting. Shot and ball...

 

[Stumpkiller]

Not sure how you'd prove the straight rifling has an advantage over pure smooth as far as a knuckle or curve ball. Curve is applied with an "english" style spin perpendicular to travel that cannot be applied with straight, spiral or lack of rifling. Maybe by roughing up one side of the bore only(?)

The knuckle effect is random breaking on a ball that is not spiraling, so it shouldn't be better with a purely straight launch. In fact, the straight removes any "accidental" spiralling and, theoretically, may increase the knuckle effect. As I understand it the pitcher tries to throw a ball as straight as possible with no twist for a knuckle ball.

Be interesting to see what you come up with. One thing it may do is drag on the wad more, keep the shot column from twisting, and that might give a better shot pattern. :idunno:

Once you figure it out the straight should throw a more consistant ball, whether it has a knuckle in flight or not. At least it would be an improvement in that case because you can compensate when you have consistancy. :wink:

 

[Stophel]

The straight rifled gun was called a "Schrotbüchse" (shot rifle) by the Germans in the 18th century, so apparently was used to shoot shot. Straight rifled guns were treated as smoothbores. Generally no patchbox, generally no rear sights. It is supposed to stabilize the shot and make better patterns. You can buy straight rifled barrels and choke tubes today for modern shotguns. :wink:

I had Mr. Charles Burton make me a straight rifle barrel last year. The first he had ever done! I have yet to get around to stocking it.

 

[paulvallandigham]

IN an old issue of Gun Digest, I have an article describing how the Italian Gun Co., Perazzi, had done some testing of Straight groove rifling in the shotgun barrels for its Olympic team, and had obtained 98% patterns with the system.

The grooves LOCK the wads, or plastic wads/cups to keep ANY rotation of the wad or cup from occurring in the barrel, allowing the choke to have full effect on the shot patterns.

Using a PRB in a muzzleloader, I would think that straight grooves will have this same effect- locking the fabric wad and OP wads from rotating in the bore, to improve the shot after shot consistency of the gun. You still are throwing a " knuckle Ball" but without variables you cannot otherwise control.

Personally, I believe that cleaning the bore between shots, and greasing the bore after seating your PRB eliminates the causes of that possible rotation of wads or cups.

 

[George]

Just something a little different that I am excited to try to see if the "old technology" might be practical.

Wm. Cleator wrote a book, An Essay on Shooting, in 1789, in which he describes and critiques a wide variety of things which have been tried over the years to improve the efficiency of fowling pieces. He has a section on straight rifling which you might be interested in.

“The straight rifling of barrels, is an expedient, which, though not often practiced, yet deserves notice, as having the testimony of some amateurs to its efficacy in preventing the scattering of shot. Neither the workmen who make these pieces, however, nor the persons who use them, can give any satisfactory explanation of the principles upon which the rifling proves serviceable in fowling pieces; and some of them admit that it cannot be of any use, unless the depth and breadth of the channels, and the size of the shot, are suited to each other. Having never tried any of these pieces, we shall not assert, that they possess no advantage over the plain ones; but we can safely say that they are attended with several obvious inconveniencies, the chief of which is, their great weight; for the barrel must be made considerably thicker than a plain one, in order to admit of being rifled, and the additional quantity of metal in it, when finished, will be in proportion to the depth of the channels, and the breadth of the threads. They are also more difficultly kept clean; and it is scarcely possible to prevent considerable windage, let us use what kind of wadding we will: so that not only a part of the force of the explosion will be lost, but the flame, by getting among the grains of the shot, will increase their divergency from its lateral expansion when the charge has quitted the muzzle. We shall, however, postpone the further consideration of this matter, until we have treated of rifle barrels in particular, when it will be better understood, and more in its proper place.

Of all the contrivances which have been mentioned, not one appears calculated to answer the end for which it was proposed. The greater number of gunsmiths are sensible of this, and therefore very seldom practice them, unless to indulge the whim of their customers. As far as our reason and experience are sufficient for enabling us to determine upon the matter, we would reject all the expedients that have been hitherto proposed, and give decided preference to the barrels as they are usually made, i.e. to those whose caliber is smooth and perfectly cylindrical throughout. Barrels of this kind have long supported their credit among the best sportsmen, whilst the pretended improvements have all experienced but a very temporary reputation, and are now almost entirely neglected.

Would sportsmen only forebear to determine upon the merits or defects of their pieces, until they had given them a patient and impartial trial, by varying the quantity of powder and shot in different ways; we are inclined to think there would be fewer complaints made of the modern fowling pieces.

Spence

 

[roundball]

Man, I love that style of writing...and the article doesn't paint a very rosy picture LOL

That would be an awful lot of footage...yards when added together...of sharp 90* corners the full length of the barrel in each of the grooves for lead deposits to build up in.

Example: 42" x 6 groove barrel:

two 90* corners per each of 6 grooves = 12 90* corners;
12 x 42" barrel = 504" of 90* corners
504" divided by 12" = 42 linear feet of 90* corners

Seems like it would be a constant struggle keeping it clean if shooting shot out of it...I guess the upside is if not kept clean, it would soon become a smoothbore
:grin:

This will be a good hands on experiment...keep us posted with range / field reportsw

 

[George]

As I understand it the pitcher tries to throw a ball as straight as possible with no twist for a knuckle ball.

I have a question for you. Could a pitcher throw a knuckle ball with effect it he were using a swaged baseball? :grin:

As I understand it the random moves of a knuckle ball depend on airflow over the seams of the ball which protrude in an irregular fashion above the rest of the ball. No seams, no effect. What about swaged roundballs?

Spence

 

[ericb]

In any event, I'm sure we're all eager to hear how it shoots...

E

 

[Stumpkiller]

As I understand it the pitcher tries to throw a ball as straight as possible with no twist for a knuckle ball.

I have a question for you. Could a pitcher throw a knuckle ball with effect it he were using a swaged baseball? :grin:

As I understand it the random moves of a knuckle ball depend on airflow over the seams of the ball which protrude in an irregular fashion above the rest of the ball. No seams, no effect. What about swaged roundballs?

Spence

I can honestly say I have no idea. ;-)

I have never had the luxury of a swaged ball in my smoothbores as, for better or worse, they take big cast balls with plenty of seams and sprue flats. :haha:

 

[roundball]

As I understand it the pitcher tries to throw a ball as straight as possible with no twist for a knuckle ball.

As I understand it the random moves of a knuckle ball depend on airflow over the seams of the ball which protrude in an irregular fashion above the rest of the ball. No seams, no effect. What about swaged roundballs?

Boy, hunting seasons need to get here quick...its getting pretty deep
:grin:

I've got my smoothbores shooting PRBs pretty darn tight at 50yds...and in the case of the .54cal, I see no difference between Hornady .520s and Eddie May's cast .520".

Have no swaged .600"s to compare Eddie May's .600"s to but they're very accurate at 50yds as well.

 

[Stophel]

Not a fan of sports, so I don't even know what a "Knuckleball" is anyway. :idunno:

:grin:

 

[George]

Boy, hunting seasons need to get here quick...its getting pretty deep :grin:

Sure is. :haha: My hunting season did open, and I spent a long morning after bushytails, didn't even get a shot. Just goes to show you, be careful what you wish for, because I've spent the last couple of days scratching chiggers. Lots of chiggers. One of the bad side effects of a breechclout which no one ever mentions.

Stumpkiller, I was definitely tongue-in-cheek with the knuckle ball bit, but I notice that it's the current buzz word. I think there are three threads running right now on which the knuckle ball effect is being evoked. I'm not a believer.

Spence

 

[Gobbletn]

I will only be shooting the shot very seldom. Hopefully one shot a day Turkey hunting! The same for deer hunting with a LB. I don't think fowling will be the issue. Past barrels produces by the same company are having good results so just wondering if anyone out there has had hands on experience? Depth of rifling groves would be the same as the swagged barrels with twist rifling. This is not a smoothbore barrel with groves. It's a rifle barrel that I will shoot shot thru! Who knows it might be all talk but the owners of like barrels love them.

 

[George]

Hopefully one shot a day Turkey hunting!

I like your attitude. :thumbsup:

Who knows it might be all talk but the owners of like barrels love them.

I hope you will report back on your results. That would be good info to have. The one thing I'm curious about is how you will be able to tell that the straight rifling is improving things, because a smooth 28 gauge barrel gives splendid accuracy for a lot of guys.

Cool idea, looking forward to your results.

Spence

 

[Stumpkiller]

Stumpkiller, I was definitely tongue-in-cheek with the knuckle ball bit, but I notice that it's the current buzz word. I think there are three threads running right now on which the knuckle ball effect is being evoked. I'm not a believer.

Spence

Wouldja believe floater? I agree it's overused, but I can tell you with my Bess something happened after 60 yards that had the symptoms of erraticness. Couldn't have been me. :wink:

 

[roundball]

Speaking for myself, when I use the reference I mean it in the context of the knuckle ball "effect"...meaning that at some point the consistency/repeatability/predictibility of the balls POI becomes erratic / group size starts to open, becomes unpredictible...like a pitcher's knuckle ball does when it's slowing down as it approaches the batter 60 feet away. And in the case of a 97mph baseball, the notion of subsonic/transonic/supersonic boundary influences does not apply of course.

I don't know if there are any other influences on a ball with no spin stabilization as great as that caused by a patched ball (or baseball) simply slowing down...there may well be and I just don't know what it is.
What I have become convinced of is that my smoothbore PRB accuracy/group sizes improve with increased velocity.