Just some NWTG musings...

[Snow on the Roof]

I recently aquired a fine NWTG assembled by David Dolliver in 1985 from parts produced by Curley Gosmoski[sp?]. She is a slim yet stout girl with a walnut stock and tappered oct to round barrel. Though this not my first dance with a smoothy I am a true novice at this game. In shooting this beauty I have come upon a few thoughts, ideas and questions. One opinion, being a 12 gauge and seeming to prefer .715 roundballs, she is an expensive date but oh the hole she makes! The clay mound, which serves as the back stop to my range, looks as if it has sustained mortor fire for near a month. The bore by measure of my cheap calipers and poor eyesight seems to be .725 and those massive .715 RB's shoot best unpatched, dropped directly on the powder charge with a lubed card wad over the top. While speaking of powder, stout charges seem to be in order and the gun shows no preference for FF or FFF digesting both with equal ferver. 80-90 grains of either produces acceptable accuracy. I have yet to muster the courage to try triple diget loads but that will soon be, though I fear FFF may produce more pressures than this shooter can withstand.
As this one has only a small brass frontsight for aiming I at first struggled getting consistant accuracy. I found that I have to choke up on the butt stock placing my cheek far forward and giving her a lot of barrel to keep my shots from hitting low, is this normal? Perhaps that is the price of my being tall and rather skinny of build, think Ikabod Crane... Additionally, the lock is very sure but has a strong trigger pull. How do I correct this?
In ,my limited research I think this gun would be correct for the late fur trade era, post 1830. She has wood screws attaching the sheet brass butt plate to the stock as opposed to the more common and pre-dating square head nails. There is a right facing sitting fox stamp on the lock plate as well on the barrel at the breech. This particular arm does not have the cross bolt connecting the trigger guard and barrel tang common to English Trade Guns. Instead long wood screws are used. Is this HC or is it something Curley did? From what I've learned about Curley, he was a stickler about historical accurracy and oft times based his patterns on existing museum pieces. If I could figure out how to post pictures on the forum I will do so to get your more experienced observations of this gun.

Snow

 

[trent/OH]

"Historical accuracy" changes as our knowledge increases and evolves.

This month's Muzzle Blasts (July 2012) has a great article on Tecumseh's trade gun, and it's re-creation. The original lives in Chadron at the Museum of the Fur Trade. It's a fantastic story, and somebody will win the gun at the CLA auction.

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

Northwest trade guns have a high sharp angled comb that will punish most human shooters. I shot North west guns for many years. If you get down on the stock for a sight picture you will feel it. I used to look like I done 12 with Ali after a week of shooting! You young folks will have to look up Ali
on Google!

 

[Joel/Calgary]

... The bore by measure of my cheap calipers and poor eyesight seems to be .725 and those massive .715 RB's shoot best unpatched, dropped directly on the powder charge with a lubed card wad over the top. While speaking of powder, stout charges seem to be in order and the gun shows no preference for FF or FFF digesting both with equal ferver. 80-90 grains of either produces acceptable accuracy. ...

Snow, you may find that you can reduce the powder charge if you can use some sort of wadding under that ball. You're still going to be getting a fair amount of blow-by with a .715" ball naked in a .725" bore, and that'll tend to reduce velocity, increase powder fouling, and likely add some leading to the mix. If card, fiber, and/or felt wads are not current options, you might try loose wadding - tow, paper, leaves/grass, or cloth. Even a good-sized patch run down onto the powder before dropping the ball might be enough to jam into the periphery around the ball and seal the gasses - many of us do that under not-the-tightest-possible patched round ball combinations. Loose wadding has been discussed here in the past, and I think that our good Spence may have covered it in one, or some, of the articles on his website.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Many Klatch]

My Pedersoli Bess likes a .715 ball with .010 spit patching over 90 to 120 grains of 2F. If I were you I would give the thin spit patch a try over 90 grains of 2F.

Shooting a smoothbore accurately means remembering what sight picture you have been using. On most of my smoothbores I need to be able to see the bottom of the front sight then the top or middle of the front sight will be on target. One smoothbore is on when the top of the turtle sight touches the target. My Bess is on target when the point where the blade and the base meet are on target.

Since this is your gun, I hereby authorize you to carve away the stock where your cheek rests until it is comfortable to shoot.

Many Klatch

 

[Rifleman1776]

Shooting a smoothbore accurately means remembering what sight picture you have been using.

I have been advised to make a temporary rear sight for my fowler. Once I learn where/how to hold that will be my "anchor point" to use from muscle memory from then on. I need to work on that.
BTW, there are no absolutes. My Ped. Brown Bess uses a patched .731 round ball. I haven't shot it in years and forget what patching I used.

 

[matt denison]

".....assembled by David Dolliver in 1985"

This would explain the use of wood screws for the butt plate and to hold the barrel tang instead of a bolt going from the trig. guard to the tang.

Things were a lot different in 1985. The (almost) sole source of info. on NWTG's was Charles Hanson's book The Northwest Gun which was first published in 1954. There is so much more information available now in the computer age. A fellow who knows how to search the internet effectively can find more information in one weekend than either Charles or Curly had to work with in their carreers. Also the availibillity of correct parts was severely limited then (barrels in particular)

I still do some warrenty work on Curlies old locks. If you can't stand the trigger pull and if it is somethin in the lock causing the problem send it to me, I'll fix it. (send a PM for mailing info.)

I'm always happy to hear that someone is still using one of Curlies old guns, shooting them and enjoying them. I do my best to keep the old girls going - safely.

 

[hanshi]

Just curious, here. I like the NW guns though I've yet to own one. A friend sold his years ago because of the "face whack" you describe. I've heard this has a lot to do with the shooter's build. What type of build has the worst time of it? Now, I'm 5'4" and not in the least "beefy" or stout. Think I would regret getting one?

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

Build could be the problem I have been a XX most of my life. Perhaps the skinnier folks don't have the problem. All I know is twenty five years ago everybody shot Curley guns. Then slowly the French Toule showed up and then foulers. Very few people shoot them now. I now shoot a North Star West Light Dragoon Carbine which has the same weight and feel of a Northwest gun but it does not whomp me up side my head!

 

[Keb]

I've owned a few of the ones Curly produced and still have one. It's a 20 gauge x 36" thin wall with 12 1/2" pull. It was used as a re-enactment gun for most of it's life. I also built one of his kits back in the 80's. Now that was a learning experience. That gun kicked like all get out but would hit where it was pointed. They were very straight stocked guns, hardly no drop, took a lot of powder to be accurate and that is what made them kick (IMHO). I now have 4 Northwest Trade guns but don't shoot them. 3 have 36" barrels & 1 has a 42". I like the looks of them but they are a little uncomfortable to shoot. You don't dare to shoot it out on your arm. You'll be black & blue for sure.

 

[matt denison]

The stock pattern was redesigned on the North Star NW trade guns in the late 80's or perhaps 1990. No one has records and Curly, bless his heart has gone under. The newer profile has considerable more drop and is actually a lot more attractive then the old style thus easier on the shoulder/cheek. Also in the earliest days Curly was making a lot of them with modern 12 gage shotgun barrels, thin and light, needed huge ball and potent charge of powder to get them shooting flat so they tended to kick like a mule.

Whether a gun smacks you in the face or not is dependant on the shape of your face (IMHO) I once had a Roman nosed Kentucky rifle that beat me terribly, terribly hard. Sold it to a fellow who loved it and said, "now I can get rid of my T.C. that hits me in the face every time I pull the trigger." I can shoot a TC with no problem and in fact shoot my Northwest gun with no problem and so do most if not all of my customers. Another example is my wife Robin shoots a Chief's gun with no problem. However Mr. Mike Nesbitt gets pounded in the face by his and even after makeing modifications to the butt stock still has a hard time with it. It depends on where your cheekbone is and how you hold the gun.

p.s. Robin has beau-ti-ful cheekbones :grin:

 

[Hallmark55]

Just a new guy to trade guns, but, after shooting my 20 guage NSW all day yesterday the only thing that hurt was my checks from the constant smile. I plan on shooting all day today to see if this affliction continues. :grin:

 

[Hallmark55]

Hanshi,
I am 5'6" and not a big guy (165 pounds), but I shot my NSW trade gun that I built from one of Matt's kits all day yesterday and felt none of the face slap that has been mentioned. In fact, the only thing hurting this morning is my cheeks from the constant smile I was wearing yesterday. Gonna do a repeat today (in the name of science of course).
This trade gun is gonna be my go to gun this fall for sure. I for one would recommend a call to Matt.