Kasenit

[robertdeans72]

Has anyone actually used Kasenit? My Baker stopped sparking all of a sudden and the only reason I could troubleshoot was that the case had worn off. The flint was actually getting stuck 3/4 of the way down the frizzen in the soft metal. I used Kasenit as per the instructions but was only able to use a propane torch so the heat was not as high as it could have been. The sparks were better than they had ever been when I tried it out. I just don't know how long it will last.... Any one have any experience with this stuff to share?

Thanks, Rob

 

[robinghewitt]

Most important is a good bang when it hits the water. No bang = no sparks.

Wipe oil on the face, dip it in the Kasenit so it sticks, mount it face up in the vice and heat from below. If you haven't got a lot of flame you need to stack something around it to keep the heat in, fireclay bricks are best.

Get it orange hot, sprinkle on more Kasenit, keep cooking it for about a minute.

If it's a big frizzen, open the vice so it falls in the water you put below.

If it's a small frizzen, pick up with tongs, take the torch with it to the water and surprise it. You want to hear a good loud crack, that way you know it's hard :thumbsup:

 

[Stophel]

You are NOT going to get it anywhere near hot enough with a propane torch. You will need an oxy-acetlylene setup.

Hold the part with tongs in such a way that you can quench edgewise into WARM WATER. Heat to bright orange and dunk the frizzen in the Kasenit. Keep heating and hold it at heat for about 10 or 15 minutes. (that's right) If you have a 1095 frizzen, this is not necessary, BUT it seems you don't have one of these, since it is not hard all the way through. You need to get it to "case" as deeply as possible. Keep the part covered heavily in Kasenit (you only have to really worry about the frizzen face, but do get kasenit all over the part some). You shouldn't even really be able to make out the full shape of the part you are heating. By the way, do this in dim light and either wear welding goggles (which are really inconvenient, since you have to stop from time to time and look at the part to make sure you are at proper heat) or do like I do and watch what you're doing by your reflection in a window. When ready, quench, and as was said, you definitely need to hear a good "pop". All the Kasenit should pop right off the part and it should be relatively clean and it will have either a gray color or nice case-colors. I have NEVER had a problem getting really nice colors with Kasenit. If it is covered in gray gunk, it was not hot enough when you quenched it...do it again.

Now, IF this were a 1095 or 6150 frizzen, I would say temper it by heating with a propane torch. Polish off all those nice colors and make it shiny and clean. Heat the "tail" to blue (the colors go "straw, brown, purple, blue, light blue/gray, crimson/red [which you may or may not see], then dark blue gray") all the way to the angle where the frizzen "upright" joins the pan cover portion. DO NOT HEAT THE FRIZZEN FACE TO BLUE. Make sure that the frizzen "upright" goes no further than a straw color. When I do them, I heat the front (like with a Volkswagen, "Front" means Front) of the frizzen upright very lightly until I get the straw color. I do this while it sits face down on the anvil which acts as a heat sink so I won't accidentally temper it too much. When I reach the desired color, I take it off immediately and set it on a piece of wood to air cool.

IF this frizzen is made of mild steel/iron, no tempering is necessary, and is, in fact, undesirable. Now, that's the trick...just what is it made of? Who made the lock?

 

[thomas]

Excellant post with good & useful info., Thank you!

Thomas :thumbsup:

 

[LSU TIGER]

MAPP gas works fine. No need for oxy/act unless you want to weld.

 

[flashpanner]

I have used it several times for some tooling that I did for my job works great. I did the process a couple of times to get the case deeper. I got the surface to about 62 Rc. Sparks good! Got to git er hot! The metal has top go thru transformation temp in order for it to absorb the hardening elements. Report back on your results so that we can all benefit. Good luck!

 

[Grantman]

I have two TC Hawken flintlocks, both of which literally ate their soft frizzens. When I got tired sending them off to TC customer service for replacement, I gave them to a diemaker friend. He carbon nitrided them. Problem solved.

 

[roundball]

I have two TC Hawken flintlocks, both of which literally ate their soft frizzens. When I got tired sending them off to TC customer service for replacement, I gave them to a diemaker friend. He carbon nitrided them. Problem solved.

Just as an aside, fortunately TC figured that out and redesigned / improved their frizzens a few years ago and they're outstanding now

 

[WRussell]

I like Kasenit a lot, and the only thing I might have the temerity to add to FatDutchman's excellent post (besides agreeing with LSU TIGER that Mapp gas will do fine)is that if you have a weak mainspring (not likely in your case) softening the frizzen a bit more will get you better sparks.

The frizzen on the pistol in my avatar (and in the avatar flatteringly copied from my earlier post by Flashpanner) is a bit on the soft side although the main spring is plenty strong. I sharpened a flint with a diamond file once, getting a nice sharp edge all the way across just to see what would happen, and it dug in.

 

[robertdeans72]

Thanks for all the excellent posts! I figured that the propane wouldn't get the job done and, yes, the frizzen is grey.... Its just a matter of getting my hand on a better heat source... The rifle is a Military Heritage Baker from India with a barrel made in the States.
Thanks again, Rob.

 

[robinghewitt]

Kasenit disappeared over here because of health and safety regs disagreeing with it's arsenic content or something.

I bought some Dagarnite which is a mixture of charcoal, sodium carbonate solution and molasses. I didn't have much luck with it but that's probably because I'm not using it right. Have to hope the can of Kasenit I picked up in Arkansas lasts longer than I do :huh:

 

[mike alexandre]

Agreed Kasenite is no longer available here but Eternite powder is available in the UK from Shirley Aldred and Co.Sheffield 01433 620003. If anyones used it please let me know.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Kasenit disappeared over here because of health and safety regs disagreeing with it's arsenic content or something.

I bought some Dagarnite which is a mixture of charcoal, sodium carbonate solution and molasses. I didn't have much luck with it but that's probably because I'm not using it right. Have to hope the can of Kasenit I picked up in Arkansas lasts longer than I do :huh:

If just used for limited quanities of small items, it just might outlast you. I bought a can back in 81, still got plenty left. I have used it to make small cutting tools for steel, here is a tiny internal TH coning tool made from a finishing nail and Kasenit hardened.

 

[Stophel]

The touch hole coning tool is an ingenious little gizmo and it WORKS!!!!!

 

[SAJones]

Since I don't have an acetlene tourch, yet, I used to put the part in a can, cover it w/ Kasenit, & set it on my camp stove. Then I use the propane torch in conjunction w/ the stove. Marginal heat source, but it worked on the frizzens & tumblers I've worked on. Wouldn't wanta do a lockplate that way.

 

[Zonie]

A word of caution here.
The instructions given are fine for carbon steel parts, however, if you have a modern quality lock the frizzen is usually made out of an oil hardening steel.
If you quench (drop the red hot part into the cooling fluid) oil hardening steel in water it will break into several pieces.

If you are not sure what material your frizzen is made from, I would suggest that you first quench the part from it's red heat, directly into oil.
After quenching the part in oil, use a file to determine if the part is hard. If the file will not cut the part it was made from oil hardening steel and you can proceed to polish and temper it.

If the part is still soft after the oil quench it was made from carbon steel.
If it is carbon steel, go ahead and repeat the whole process again. Applying another coating of Kasenit will not cause any problems. In fact, it will permit the carbon your adding to sink deeper into the surface which is not a bad thing unless carried to extremes. This time, quench the part in Water.

 

[robertdeans72]

I've got some MAPP and an some brick for a crude forge.... We'll see how she goes....
Thanks, Rob

 

[robertdeans72]

Well, I think that I got it to work. I made a crude forge with some brick and positioned the frizzen with the face up. The torch was underneath facing the underside. The frizzen never got yellow but did get nice and red. All I did was lift a brick to expose the face and pour a spoonful of Kasenit on top. The brick went back on and I proceeded to bake the frizzen for about 20 minutes. The kasenit reduced to a layer of black sludge and when the time was up I took the frizzen with the torch and quenched it. Nice pop. I could feel with my hand the difference in the surface of the metal. Went shooting today and not one frizzen related misfire... Now to see how long it lasts..... Thanks to all.

Rob

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Quite right Zonie, I shattered a Pedersoli frizzen with a water quench, no idea what the steel was but I should have tried oil quench first.
I have case hardened several frizzens and small parts by wrapping them in thin damp leather then in heavy duty foil. Put them atop coals at the draft of my wood stove for about half an hour, then stoke up the coals to max heat for a couple of minutes and drop the whole package into water. I've never had a failure with that technique but, of course, you still have to know what kind of steel you're working with as per Zonie's warning.
Unfortunatly, it will be a few more months before it's cool enough to fire up the wood stove, saw 106 yesterday! Way too hot!--- :cry: