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Kasenit

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idahjo

40 Cal.
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I wonder if anyone would be kind enough to explain how Kasenit is supposed to be used? I have had a container around for years, but have never had much luck with it. (there were no directions for it's use)
I noticed in Brownells that it said, "after quenching the part is clean...". I 'gotta be doing something wrong, what is the quench? :(
 
I think this is a case where you want to ask the builder's forum but don't double post they should move this question.

Quenching is done with oil or water after a part has been heated to a very high temp.

I know little of the process the forum members here know quite a bit about it.
 
While no expert, I have used Kasenit a few times quite a while ago.
Here is what I did:
Heat the part to be hardened with a torch (I used a propane torch) until it is cherry red, dip it into the Kasenit while hot. The Kasenit powder sticks to the part. Reheat it cherry red and then dunk it into water. The dunking into water is the quench. I used this process on a couple of air rifle sears and it worked well.
Dave
 
That's what the quench is, when it hits the water. What are you trying to harden? I tried some on a frizzen but could only get a couple of strikes out of it before I was through the hardened part. I always wondered if I wasn't getting it hot enough. In the end I broke down and just bought a new frizzen. It doesn't look the same but brought that lock right back to life.
 
Hope this link to some information will help. Recommend you practice on some scrap to get the feel of it's use, good luck.
[url] http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=how+to+use+kasenit[/url]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think the knack is in keeping the part hot for a full 5 minutes whilst the kasenite does its work, you may have to put more on. And when you come to quenching, there must be no delay in dropping the part in the water. The water must be cool and clean, adding a bit of salt or using sea water is another old trick.
 
Be careful using Kasenit. It has arsenic in it, and must be used in a well ventilated area. It does only put a thin layer of carbon in the frizzen, and you will shoot through that layer fairly quickly with a sharp flint. You are better off trying to use the "Blister steel" technique to harden a frizzen, or just do what you did, and buy a better frizzen. I first used Kasenite when I was a freshman in high school shop class( 1961) , hardening the tip of a small tack hammer we made with hand tools. I still have the hammer, and the case hardened nose is still holding up, although it has some dents and gouges now after all these years. I have better hammers.
 
"Be careful using Kasenit. It has arsenic in it,.."

Why would you make such a statement?

I just read the label on a can I have, it plainly states:

Kasenit compounds are highly refined, NON-POISONOUS, non-inflammable and non-explosive.
 
And in addition I harden my hammers on average once a year and fire flint locks 3 to 4 times a week. The kasenite treatment lasts all year.
 
My best luck with case hardening a frizzen is by wrapping it with thin leather, then wrapping the whole bundle with a thick layer of aluminum foil. I then place in on the coals in the draft of my woodstove. Leave it fifteen minutes or so, then restoke the stove and put it back on to the new coals and from there drop into cold water, still talking the whole bundle.
PLEASE NOTE, all this case hardening discussion assumes the part to be soft iron or mild steel. If you're working with high carbon steel it will crack or shatter when quenched in water! In that case no case hardening should be needed, just red heat and quench in oil.
 
Well, I'll be! (I think the guy who gave me some in a jelly jar 'forgot' to add that last step :winking: )

Amazing what a cool water dunk does for it :redface:
 
idahjo said:
Well, I'll be! (I think the guy who gave me some in a jelly jar 'forgot' to add that last step :winking: )

Amazing what a cool water dunk does for it :redface:

Glad it worked. Kasenit can make the surface as hard as glass.
Dave
 
Case hardening with Kasenit is one of the FEW things I seem to be able to do well without problems. Parts like the plate, cock, and bridle, are usually 8620, which is a mild steel and can be case hardened without tempering (though I still will temper slightly afterwards, just in case). Frizzens are almost universally made of 1095. This is plain, ordinary, simple, and YES, water hardening steel. When I do a frizzen, this is the procedure I use. Using an oxy-acetylene torch, (there is NO WAY you could ever do this with a propane torch), heat the part to bright orange (I NEVER see steel glow "cherry red"...). If there is a question as to heat, take a magnet and try to stick it to the hot part. The point at which it no longer sticks is "critical heat" and is where you need to be. Coat the part with Kasenit and keep heating. I usually watch my reflection in a large, shaded window rather than look directly at my work. I lost my goggles and wouldn't wear them even if I had them. When heating, I heat the whole part, but only really worry about the striking surface. Keep heating and adding kasenit. Again, the Kasenit should be put on HEAVY. You should hardly be able to tell the shape of the part you are working on. I usually keep going for about 10 minutes. When ready, I quench in warm, dirty water. The Kasenit will come off with a very satisfying "POP", and the part will come out of the water relatively clean and with nice colors on it. If it has lots of goo, very likely it was not hot enough when you quenched it and you need to do it again. Now, for lockplates and bridles, all I do then is polish off the inside of the plate where I can see my temper colors and temper it down to a "straw" color. This doesn't really temper the hardness down much, if any, but in my mind I think I'm relieving any stress that might be in the part...

On frizzens, all those pretty colors have to be polished off (I have always been able to get really nice case colors with Kasenit) so it can be tempered. I hold the frizzen upright portion with old pliers and heat the tail of the frizzen first with the color going to blue in the tail and maybe purple through the screw hole and into the pan cover area. When this is reached, I put the frizzen face down on the anvil to act as a heat sink and continue heating CAREFULLY on the front side of the frizzen upright. I can do one so that the front of the frizzen is a straw color while the rear striking surface is uncolored and still full hardness. I have always done them this way, and have always been very successful at making frizzens that spark like wildfire, and none have ever come back to me.
 
"(there is NO WAY you could ever do this with a propane torch), heat the part to bright orange (I NEVER see steel glow "cherry red"...)"

Yes there is a way. A propane torch works just fine on small pieces of steel - I've one it many times. A propane torch runs about 1,300 C and the Curie temperature of iron is about 700C. It turns red before that.
Dave
 
Now that you mention it, I do vaguely recall that someone told me many years ago, that they thought they changed for compound in Kasenite, and removed the Arsenic. You are right, and I am wrong. Bad memory. The product was dangerous when I used in in 1961, as I remember the shop teacher being very careful with the stuff as we case harded our hammer heads. I have avoided it since. Guess I should visit the product before writing about it. My apologies to all.
 
Since idajo has had his container of Kasenit for years, he may have some of the old stuff with arsenic. Caution is never wasted.
 
The fat duchtman knows of which he speaks.

I can only assume that you plan to harden a frizzen.

I do things a little differently, but the basic procedure is the same. I prefer to heat the part for at least 15 minutes. The longer, the better, and the deeper the case. After quenching in warm water, temper in the oven at 350 deg for an hour and let it cool slowly. Then heat he tail of the frizzen until it turns bright blue.

Be careful that the colors don't extend past the 90 deg bend onto the steel face. This is not hard to do with a small torch. Then let it cool. If per chance you get it a little over 350 deg it will still spark real well but it will wear fast. Any thing over 400 deg it will be too soft.

It's best to hang the frizzen on the middle rack of the oven, since the heat in an oven is not consistent, and the thermocouple is often located at the top of the oven, where the heat is most concentrated. The idea is that the frizzen hung with a wire from the middle rack will temper a little under 350 degrees.
J.D.
 
LeatherMoose said:
Since idajo has had his container of Kasenit for years, he may have some of the old stuff with arsenic. Caution is never wasted.

This stuff looks more like borax granules than anything. What does the latest concoction look like? :confused:
 
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