Keepin your powder dry

[bradmartin]

I have been watching some M/L hunting shows and more then a few times the rifle does not fire. They always have some reason why it didn't work. Most of all it is due ( as far as they say)to the rifle being loaded over night.
What would be the best way to keep your powder dry. Should you fire the rifle at the end of the day if there is a safe place to do so?

 

[biliff]

I'm going to come right out with a definitive "it depends".
If your rifle got soaked during the day then you probably want to either pull the charge or fire it out.
If your rifle stayed dry during the day then you can uncap it or blow out the prime, cover the nipple with something/plug the touchhole and leave the thing outside. Don't bring it into a warm building or you may get condensation build up (cold barrel, warm moist air).
As far as most of the "muzzleloading" hunts I've seen on TV, I kinda doubt any of the participants are particularly well schooled in the intricacies of muzzleloading firearms and are just using them for the "gee whiz" factor. When the guns fail to fire on camera and they don't have any fall back footage they use the "moisture" excuse. They don't mention the fact they didn't bother to clean the packing grease out of the piece before they loaded it. (Sorry, just not to impressed with what I've seen on TV).

 

[bradmartin]

Can't say that I blame you there. I was just wanting to know. Plan to start hunting next year with my sidelock.
Thanks for the help.

 

[Rebel]

I have left my rifle loaded for over a week and it went off just fine when i pulled the trigger. Like said above don't bring a cold gun into a warm house or tent, and it should be fine. I keep a piece of fairly heavy weight leather on a thong attached to the trigger guard and cover the nipple with that when it is loaded and uncapped. Seems to work for me. Course if you were out in the rain or a heavy snow all day it might be a good idea to pull the charge or fire it off and start fresh. :m2c:

 

[BrownBear]

Here in rain country I never leave a charge in a gun overnight. Too much humidity in the air, even if you managed to keep the gun dry during the day. PC or not, I use one of those CO2 dischargers to blow everything out. If it's a rainy day and I can find a dry spot, I even do the same thing at midday. I have to say I've never had a misfire due to water, but that's about the only thing I haven't done wrong. The list of all the other causes of my misfires runs on and on and on and.......

 

[roundball]

I'm going to come right out with a definitive "it depends".
If your rifle got soaked during the day then you probably want to either pull the charge or fire it out.
If your rifle stayed dry during the day then you can uncap it or blow out the prime, cover the nipple with something/plug the touchhole and leave the thing outside. Don't bring it into a warm building or you may get condensation build up (cold barrel, warm moist air).
As far as most of the "muzzleloading" hunts I've seen on TV, I kinda doubt any of the participants are particularly well schooled in the intricacies of muzzleloading firearms and are just using them for the "gee whiz" factor. When the guns fail to fire on camera and they don't have any fall back footage they use the "moisture" excuse. They don't mention the fact they didn't bother to clean the packing grease out of the piece before they loaded it. (Sorry, just not to impressed with what I've seen on TV).

Years ago I did that once and missed a 6 pointer the next morning due to a delayed fire in a caplock...never left a rifle loaded since.

I don't shoot out out though, I either use a ball puller or compressed air...then dry patch & lube patch the bore, let the rifle get warm & dry inside overnight, and load fresh the next day...then there's never a question...or a loaded gun sitting around

 

[Tahquamenon]

I have been watching some M/L hunting shows and more then a few times the rifle does not fire. They always have some reason why it didn't work. Most of all it is due ( as far as they say)to the rifle being loaded over night.
What would be the best way to keep your powder dry. Should you fire the rifle at the end of the day if there is a safe place to do so?

Touchy subject for some folks. I'd say if you are unsure or in any way not confident, discharge or pull the charge.

If you do fire your rifle at the end of the day, it would likely be the safest to do so in the field before you leave.

Or you can pull the charge (not fun and not as safe in my view) or use a compressed air gadget (Which I've yet to try).

If below freezing temperatures all day, I'll un-prime and leave the rifle in the garage at below freezing ambient temperatures. I'll do this for up to five days. I've never needed to have one charged longer than that. I've never had a misfire doing this.

In above freezing temperatures, high humidity or was raining during the day, I'll fire the rifle into the ground in the field, detail clean in the evening and load fresh the next AM.

If fired at anytime during the hunt season, I always detail clean that evening and load fresh the following morning.

:m2c:

 

[Hoyt]

During this spring gobbler season I camped in a tent and hunted 35days of a 38day season and it was a real rainy and humid a lot of the time. When it wasn't raining the woods were soaked with dew. I had to really watch my primer when walking to keep water out of the pan when leaves or bushes brushed against it. Couple of times it did get wet and had to dry out with alcohol and patches.
I left my .20ga. flintlock loaded in my vehicle every night and would shoot it to unload about every 4 or 5 days..or if I got caught in a real toad stringer I would shoot before the next morning hunt. I was real pleased with the gun..never had the first misfire or hang fire and I did hunt in some serious rain at times. Just used a homemade cow's knee and kept the barrel down.
I would feel better about the load if I loaded it fresh everyday, but my mind is not all that sharp at 4:00am..especially when I'm wore out from hunting everyday...it's all I can do to crawl out the cot and until I get enough coffee poured down the cobwebs are still thick.
So therefore I'd rather take a chance on mother nature foiling my hunt than trust me fumblin around in a half dark tent with a semi conscious brain trying to load my gun with them paper shot cups and 2 different size bird shot. It's all I can do to remember to grab whatever I'm taking with me that morning.

 

[Black Hand]

Make sure you seal in the barrel channel and behind the lock as moisture will sneak in from there. I found this out the hard way, as moisture would get in the barrel channel, follow it back to the breech end and seep up between the lock and the barrel. This was even though I had on a cows-knee and carried it barrel down with the lock under my arm. I have now sealed everthing I could with beeswax but we haven't had a good gully-washer to test it.
Black Hand

 

[Stumpkiller]

Someday I'll get me one of those CO2 dischargers, but my usual practice is to leave the gun loaded if I will be hunting the next day provided it has not been rained or snowed on . . . and if I was nimble in hopping the creek. I also use a cow's knee at the first hint of precipitation.

I re-prime often, cap or flint, if it has been a gloomy day.

I am fastidious about wiping the bore with 91% iso. alcohol & letting it dry before the first load (and the pan/frizzen). When I remember, I stick a vegie fiber wad over the powder as I load. Oil from the breech seams or the lube will "kill" powder, also.

The best practice will probably always be a fresh load in the morning after discharging the night before, but that is not always practical.

Miss a deer once to a "Clack" instead of a "KaBANG!" and it will change your outlook entirely, no doubt.

 

[roundball]

During this spring gobbler season I camped in a tent and hunted 35days of a 38day season and it was a real rainy and humid a lot of the time. When it wasn't raining the woods were soaked with dew. I had to really watch my primer when walking to keep water out of the pan when leaves or bushes brushed against it. Couple of times it did get wet and had to dry out with alcohol and patches.
I left my .20ga. flintlock loaded in my vehicle every night and would shoot it to unload about every 4 or 5 days..or if I got caught in a real toad stringer I would shoot before the next morning hunt. I was real pleased with the gun..never had the first misfire or hang fire and I did hunt in some serious rain at times. Just used a homemade cow's knee and kept the barrel down.
I would feel better about the load if I loaded it fresh everyday, but my mind is not all that sharp at 4:00am..especially when I'm wore out from hunting everyday...it's all I can do to crawl out the cot and until I get enough coffee poured down the cobwebs are still thick.
So therefore I'd rather take a chance on mother nature foiling my hunt than trust me fumblin around in a half dark tent with a semi conscious brain trying to load my gun with them paper shot cups and 2 different size bird shot. It's all I can do to remember to grab whatever I'm taking with me that morning.

That's a funny picture you painted and I understand where you're coming from...and I suspect with the right care, ignition from a previously loaded rifle would probably be pretty reliable.

I just happened to have had a bad experience, analyzed the big picture, and decided I wouldn't do that again...wasn't really any compelling reason for me to take that risk...not operating under adverse long term tent conditions like you described, etc.

It's easy for me to come home, walk into the garage, blow the load out with compressed air, and take the rifle inside for the night...takes 2 minutes and I'll have no worries the next morning.

Wasn't making a post telling anybody how they should handle their situations, I was just posting what I do...
:redthumb:

 

[Rat]

I think Bakeoven nailed it pretty good as far as the shows go. I saw one where you could HEAR the cap pop when he tried to shoot, and then they explained the miss fire as a "bad cap". The ONLY show I've ever seen where they use a flinter, they don't get a shot at a deer, then at the end of the day when he decides to unload the gun, he gets about three flashes in the pan befor it goes off...then they are all like: "well yeah it's a flintlock and you never know if it will fire or not".

:curse: :bull: :curse: :bull:

No I don't think anyone is all right or all wrong on this subject, or telling anyone else what to do. I do think this forum is a treasure chest of ideas, intelligence and opinions. And opinions are not bad things...they are products of experience, and people just live different experience(s).

Ok, I'm in the load it and keep it loaded all season camp. !! However, if I suspected the load got damp for any reason, I would not hesitate to pull it. Still, I can leave a rifle loaded for months and it will fire 100%. One time I left a rifle loaded all season, then didn't get around to unloading it for another four months...fired perfect and hit the bulls-eye.

I don't believe a load ever pulls moisture "from the air". Down the barrel channel, seeping up through the lock, sure. But with the barrel sealed with a ball, and a cap on the nipple...it just don't happen. With a flinter the prime will be wet if the main charge is, plus you can actually pick the main charge and see. But really if the prime is dry it's not likely that water snuck past the prime and into the main charge. !!

Anyhow, I beleive that anytime a load goes "soft" it is because the rifle (or smoothie) was not properly prepared prior to loading. It can't be stressed enough how much cleaning and drying a ML requires to get every last bit of oil out of the breech and flash channels.

BP fouling is hydroscopic, but BP is not. For that reason I'd think twice about shooting off a load and then reloading. I think pulling a load or CO2 would be the better idea. If you fire the gun and clean it, then you have re-introduced all that water and oil back into the breech and flash channels, and possibly breech plug threads.

I think Cap-snappers should always pull the nipple and pick it, run a pipe cleaner through it, and "tend" to the area under the nipple for reliability, at the start of the day.

Flinters need only look through the touch hole, and feel the main charge with a thin metal pick.

But there is nothing inherent in a ML that will cause it to miss-fire...it is ALWAYS pilot error.

Rat

 

[Stumpkiller]

BP fouling is hydroscopic, but BP is not.

The saltpetre (potassium or sodium nitrate) in blackpowder is a salt and is hydroscopic. But, there are other factors that will get you first. If you pan is tight to the frizzen or the nipple is set you've got it pretty well handled.

 

[Wart]

Looks like I'm just old fashioned on this subject. If its been rainy and I've got any doughts, I'll shoot it off in the field before calling it a day.
If its dry, I'll dump the pan only. The one thing I do is too not prime until I am in position - you know, set up for turkey hunting or deer hunting. I'm not much for snap shots so I don't walk around the woods with the pan primed. I will also dump the pan several times while I'm out, just incase there was a chance of dampness. Some guys use a cows knee over their lock in wet conditions, I generally will keep my smokepole tucked under my armpit. No, I can't say its went of 100% of the time, thats why its called primitive :thumbsup:

 

[Hoyt]

Wasn't making a post telling anybody how they should handle their situations, I was just posting what I do...

I knew you weren't Roundball...and I agree with your method of unloading and having a good fresh load to start the hunt.
I think that's the ideal situation.
But there's just so many variables nowdays especially with me..having to hunt public land and where you can't even discharge a gun after 1:00PM during gobbler season and all the woods are posted everywhere and the nearest legal place I can even shoot a gun is over an hr. drive from my home...it just makes things more difficult.
I remember yrs. back before I got into black powder, I would be bow hunting during muzzleloader season and late in the afternoon I would hear all kinds of shooting and thought the muzzleloader hunters where tearing the deer up....then found out they were just unloading there guns.

 

[oomcurt]

To each thier own, I guess. I shoot a percussion Renegade. I treat it the same as I did a center fire cartridge when hunting. I park the vehicle...load and cap the nipple, set the hammer at half cock and go on my way. Too many times I have seen deer on my way to where I was planning to take my stand...no..not a tree stand or one of those climb up things one sees on OLN...that is shooting a deer, not hunting them. IMO.

 

[roundball]

To each thier own, I guess. I shoot a percussion Renegade. I treat it the same as I did a center fire cartridge when hunting. I park the vehicle...load and cap the nipple, set the hammer at half cock and go on my way. Too many times I have seen deer on my way to where I was planning to take my stand...no..not a tree stand or one of those climb up things one sees on OLN...that is shooting a deer, not hunting them. IMO.

You do all your hunting as still hunting, staying on the move all the time??

 

[Rat]

Do'H! I keep hearing it both ways...it's not it is...is not...!!

Ok Stump I believe ya but I have a question.

How come powder horns and flasks never absorb moisture from the air, but so many are convinced that a load of powder, sealed in the breech of a gun will?

Seeeeeeeeems to me that a powder horn with a wood stopper is not as tight as the chamber of a gun. ??? Many horns are not sealed well to the base-plug.

This is what has always "stumped" me on this powder attracting moisture thing. Plus, I've never had a gun fail to fire or miss-fire from a wet or damp charge...I've never seen no wet/damp main charge. I've never seen my pan get damp. Only time I did it was oil creeping up from the lock and barrel joint. Once I hunted with my Zouave in freezing rain once...the rifle was covered in a SHEET OF ICE...the thing went off 100% normal, shattering the ice!! (after a full day of being covered in ice)

Also, about a two weeks ago, went Turk hunting up north, we hunted from/at this guy's cabin up in the woods. Before I left, I dumped my prime out of my pan on the front porch, the porch is covered, but open. I was standing on the ground in front of the porch, so the porch/deck was about chest level, and it dumped into a little pile, just like it sits in the pan...about five inches from the outside edge of the porch. O.k., went back up about a week and a half after that, and just happened to notice that little pile of prime still sitting there. It had rained HARD several times since we had been there. It sat there day and night...it was perfectly bone-dry.

Now if a pile of powder can lay there, with thunder showers and down-pours going on two feet away, 100% humidity, and not absorb "moisture from the air", how does it do it sealed in the breech of a rifle?

It's all just messing my mind...!!

:youcrazy:

I'm really having trouble believing that any powder charge has ever abosorbed moisture from the air. I think it's all leftovers from cleaning. Perhaps the fit of the breechplug also plays into it...worser the fit, perhaps the more oil, water, Hoppe's, or whatever stays in them, and then seeps out later. ?

Rat

 

[bradmartin]

That gives a guy a lot to think about.
I saw a Pro Team member shoot a flinter (or try to). He dumped the pan and reprimed and still got the caribou. It might not have been the one he was shooting at in the first place but who's counting.

 

[oomcurt]

roundball,

Hmm..I posted a reply...but it didn't seem to "take". I'll try again. I usually stay on my "stand" till at least 9:30 in the morning..stand meaning sort of concealed by brush, whatever. Then I will still hunt till about 2:30-3:00 pm. Not sure if I would really call it still hunting...I move awfully slow. Take advantage of any cover. If I see what looks to be a good area I will stay put for at least an hour. At times, if not still hunting I will take part in a drive...although at this time of my life I no longer drive but take a post where deer might come out. Do I get a deer every time I go hunting...nope..but I get just as much enjoyment out of being there as I do if I do get one.